The truth about RMT and Botting

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lososthefish wrote:

The truth is RMT customers make you all jelly because they gain advantage you cannot get without paying the money. Some people have money, some people have time. Only the ones that have loaded parents can have both. RMT users are not doing anything shameful or harmful, illegal. It's the RMT company that does that. It would be the same if you would say "I hate the drug addicts, or the guy smoking pot more then the drug cartels". This is what we have in modern mmos - we punish the RMT clients, while the cartel continues to exist, not giving a shit. I'm surprised how many of you can live with said logic. All you have to do to make the RMT business go away is to make it less profitable. Those guys are working for a bowl of rice anyway. One of the ways is limiting rng for the first few levels and boosting the orb drops in harder maps. Another - active gm and a gm report button. A guy that will ban ip adresses/machine names of accounts advertising RMT.

You can hate the thief and the cartel.

GGG bans tons of bot accounts/IP's every day.

yes, even if capcha is maybe a way to slow down bots (im agree to complete capcha) i think some ppl are unable to properly complete a capcha, maybe 5% of ppl or so, but this is still unfair for them ^^

Sure you can hate both. But now we only bash on the clients and some people in this discussion stated that they want to bash the clients. In my opinion, the ones buying from RMT should not be punished at all. RMT should be eliminated or in the hands of game company.

Players that use RMT outsourced or not are hated mostly because of the general idea that games are for children. Children have time and little money. Adults generally have little time and more money. There are some cases of people who have both. I don't mind if people could support their lack of time for money with exp/rarity boost scrolls that could be traded for orbs too. I don't use RMT, never used, yet I don't care about people that use it. We don't have tournaments like WoW, so there is really no threat to games balance. RMT does not work in races only in permanent leagues and long ones. Default and hardcore are dumps anyway.

The whole capcha deal is stupid. My games server had bots some time ago. We were thinking about capcha or a popup window. It was super irritating and this will just make the RMT spend 1 more bowl of rice for a guy that will retype capcha on bots once every 30 minutes. Btw most men are color blind to some extent. I have problems reading capcha and I fail 50% of those tests. I don't want this in this game.

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lososthefish wrote:

The truth is RMT customers make you all jelly because they gain advantage you cannot get without paying the money. Some people have money, some people have time. Only the ones that have loaded parents can have both. RMT users are not doing anything shameful or harmful, illegal. It's the RMT company that does that. It would be the same if you would say "I hate the drug addicts, or the guy smoking pot more then the drug cartels".

I very much disagree. If someone smokes a joint at home, that affects me not at all. (please let's not derail this thread by going too far with your example). If someone buys off RMT sites, it does affect me because it affects the economy of the game I'm playing. RMT users certainly are doing something shameful, harmful to the game, and illegal insofar as the game EULA is concerned. They are being utterly selfish.

As for jealousy, I don't care what someone else has, but if their method of obtaining it has a negative effect on the game I'm playing, then hell yes, I want to see their account wiped.

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Universalis wrote:

yes, even if capcha is maybe a way to slow down bots (im agree to complete capcha) i think some ppl are unable to properly complete a capcha, maybe 5% of ppl or so, but this is still unfair for them ^^

I'm sorry...but you see a picture of the letters.... I assume most people playing have an education and know what letters are.... and then you type in what you see... Why is this difficult lol? I feel more intelligent now that I know "99% of people) cant do a captcha as stated above. Most Captchas are color-blind compatible too

GGG of course could make the captchas real words and use Slogans from in game... having to type in "PiEty Lightning" or "Kole one Shot Kripp" would be so easy the less intelligent could do it.

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ShaeG wrote:

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Universalis wrote:

yes, even if capcha is maybe a way to slow down bots (im agree to complete capcha) i think some ppl are unable to properly complete a capcha, maybe 5% of ppl or so, but this is still unfair for them ^^

I'm sorry...but you see a picture of the letters.... I assume most people playing have an education and know what letters are.... and the nyou type in what you see... Why is this difficult lol? I feel more intelligent now that I know "99% of people) cant do a captcha as stated above.

GGG of course could make the captchas real words and use Slogans from in game... having to type in "PiEty Lightning" or "Kole one Shot Kripp" would be so easy the less intelligent could do it.

i loled at your phrases

How do they harm the economy? It's more complex then that. We have an RMT buyer. You could say, that if he didn't exist the orbs he has would not exist because RMT seller would not be here providing the service. But that also undercuts the playerbase and the amount of items on the market. I think that a guy that relies on RMT would not play this game at all if he could not rely on it.

Secondly - this is not an mmo, you do not compete with RMT players for anything and the prices only get lower. That's a sad fact, but it's not so an RMT fault per se, but the general problem of the game. Assuming that the RMT trades are 10% of the market, their output on the global prices is really small. Inflation would occur anyway. There is no RMT in races.

Thirdly - you could say that people who play 20 hours a day every day harm the games economy. You cannot do that. They are generally uber rich and dominate the market. It's either time or money. Why time is fair but money is not? What about streamers that get money from playing a game? Do they have an unfair advantage?

BTW - capcha - some people can't see it. Not because they are stupid. I fail at capcha all the time and yet I have two masters degrees. Capcha is a bad idea.

I'm not trying to prove that RMT is good god forbid. We are dealing with a problem and we are using outdated logic and wrong approach. RMT provider should be eliminated, perhaps by law or programming measures. RMT users should not be touched.

I don't know if there were any actions against RTM customers from ggg but by my definition it should be as follow

You buy from RTM even if it would have been one alteration shard you deserve to your stash and characters been deleted. Microtransaction and tabs would be ofc intanct Feel free to continue playing fair.

But the problem is you cannot do that, RTM sites could start giving away for free to random people to get them banned to further protect their customers from banning.

yes you hear it again without customers they are NOTHING

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lososthefish wrote:

How do they harm the economy? It's more complex then that. We have an RMT buyer. You could say, that if he didn't exist the orbs he has would not exist because RMT seller would not be here providing the service. But that also undercuts the playerbase and the amount of items on the market. I think that a guy that relies on RMT would not play this game at all if he could not rely on it.

Secondly - this is not an mmo, you do not compete with RMT players for anything and the prices only get lower. That's a sad fact, but it's not so an RMT fault per se, but the general problem of the game. Assuming that the RMT trades are 10% of the market, their output on the global prices is really small. Inflation would occur anyway. There is no RMT in races.

Thirdly - you could say that people who play 20 hours a day every day harm the games economy. You cannot do that. They are generally uber rich and dominate the market. It's either time or money. Why time is fair but money is not? What about streamers that get money from playing a game? Do they have an unfair advantage?

You are wrong.

We do compete. Why do we trade and spend hours making our toons better? Also the number of people racing compared to people not racing is very small. If you knew the sites i know you would see a HUGE market for RMT and it is booming, they... are booming. I read a post on a site I will not name about a guy who made ten grand in a month playing POE selling to RMT sites (mods or devs id be happy to rat him out PM me).

No one is saying that no lifers don't dominate the market the legit way. But we are saying a lot if not most people are competitive and some will do anything they can to compete. Even if they are casual.

I thought we closed the CAPTCHA subject, ShaeG.

the problem is very good and relatively cheap image-processing algorithms, allow automatons to de-cypher some CAPTCHAs - so they need to become more obscure.
and more often than not, they become so obscure even a human has trouble with them, or at least finds them more than mildly annoying.

your insult to Universalis was uncalled for.
I have a Master's Degree (in Computer Science), and I have trouble with many crazy-obscure and almost unreadable CAPTCHAs. it has nothing to do with education and/or the ability to read.

bottom line is, a modern CAPTCHA can drive people crazy a lot better than it can protect against bots.