Big packet loss behind my ISP network

Okay, let's assume that the problem is on my end. According to the article https://www.poecommunity.help/troubleshooting/lag/spikes the WinMRT is showing that the connectivity issue is caused by a packet loss.

It is weird that out of 20+ games this packet loss only happens with PoE, but nevertheless the issue is: I have a packet loss somewhere.

Considering all the troubleshooting listed in the initial post, I can not come up with any other idea to debug / narrow-down the issue.

Can you remember where your WinMTR log in the OP was directed toward?

Your log's a bit confusing; it's showing your traffic passing through routers apparently located in Germany (either Aachen or Berlin); the Netherlands (either Amsterdam or Haarlem), and there's a hop belonging to Arelion which seems especially hard to pin down - it might be in Solna, Sweden or it might be another Amsterdam hop... one record even tries placing it in New York.

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You keep going back to it being your end or to GGG's provider, and that's just not how the internet works I'm afraid. The word 'internet' is a portmanteau of the words 'interconnected' and 'networks'.

No ISP can afford to build infrastructure everywhere - so they each have regions where they have their own paying customers, and when your traffic reaches the end of one ISP's network, they pass it on to whoever is nearby. It's in their mutual interest to cooperate, because nobody would pay any of them if you were only able to access other devices on their own networks.

Your log rules out your own home network as being at fault, and further suggests that your ISP (Deutsche Telekom?) are unlikely to be at fault - although that is less certain.

Ergo, in that particular log in your first post, the most likely explanation is that a backbone provider (potentially Arelion; potentially somebody else) is to blame. There are other tests to try to identify who is responsible for the routers displayed as "Request timed out" - but none are a stellar use of our time when ISPs only routinely agree to speak with their own paying customers.

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It's highly unfortunate that neither of the VPNs you tested with were helpful, as the alternate routing they provide is most likely to serve as a reliable workaround.

I'm not enthusiastic about this suggestion - but if you are interested in every potential solution and workaround... each VPN has a chance of helping. More precisely, each selectable country or region in each VPN client has a chance of causing you to be routed around the problem.

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It is puzzling the issue has been so long-lasting, that it affects your traffic to so many data centres, and yet it doesn't appear to have gained much traction in the press. Maybe we shouldn't be too quick to rule out your ISP, afterall... it's tough to say, given what's visible to us and what is not.

I am facing same issues in PoE 1 & PoE 2 but only on specific servers in EU

I was creating multiple instances of a map to land on a scuffed server and it seems that whenever I connect to a server from this subnet:

170.23.140.0/24

It has horrible lag spikes.

What I can see in MTR is that other servers are not using cogentco.com peering/routing and they work just fine. Whenever I connect to servers from the subnet I mentioned it ends up with horrible lag spikes.

In MTR I can see just a lot of packet loss.

Also what I found is that connecting to servers from this subnet ends up with base latency at 28-30ms which is little too much for frankfurt servers (for my location which is Poland this is the same as for London or Milan which is located waaaay further from my country) whereas connecting to servers from 23.109.220.0/24 subnet shows latency at 18-20ms

So definitely there's something wrong with either particular servers or the routing that is being covered by cogentco.

Unfortunately banning 170.23.140.0/24 on the router disconnects me from the game when entering zones sometimes so I just got to get into, check ping and then reset instance so I can land in 18ms server ...

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Okay, let's assume that the problem is on my end. According to the article https://www.poecommunity.help/troubleshooting/lag/spikes the WinMRT is showing that the connectivity issue is caused by a packet loss.

It is weird that out of 20+ games this packet loss only happens with PoE, but nevertheless the issue is: I have a packet loss somewhere.

Considering all the troubleshooting listed in the initial post, I can not come up with any other idea to debug / narrow-down the issue.

I don't think it's EXACTLY on your side, but more on ISP side and it's peering or GGG using some server partner cheaping out on bandwith idk, not an expert.

But taking into account that MANY users are having the same trouble I don't think it's completely on your end (or mine as I am facing same issues)

Yesterday multiple people even from Germany (where frankfurt servers are located) where telling on Global chat that they face similar issues - lag spikes every 2 seconds or so.

My theory is that it will get more attention on 31.10 when new league starts and thousands of users will flood forums with lag spike issue. Then GGG will do something about it.

For now I am using either Stockholm or US East region to play the game ... The ping is horrible but the packet loss is non-existent

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Can you remember where your WinMTR log in the OP was directed toward?

Can't remember it anymore. I did just copy the IP from the network monitor of Windows.

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Your log rules out your own home network as being at fault, and further suggests that your ISP (Deutsche Telekom?) are unlikely to be at fault - although that is less certain

My ISP is Deutsche Telekom.

It would be interesting, if we can narrow it more down to a certain region and CIDR. I'm located in Berlin / Germany, which is not that far away from you, pablito.

Let's see if this topics gets more attention with the release of 3.27.

However for now I try to collect the IPs which cause lag spikes. Furthermore I will try to work around it by using another server (Frankfurt, Milan, Amsterdam do all have high lag spikes for me), in case I get lag spikes.

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sMuve#2756 wrote:

"

Can you remember where your WinMTR log in the OP was directed toward?

Can't remember it anymore. I did just copy the IP from the network monitor of Windows.

"

Your log rules out your own home network as being at fault, and further suggests that your ISP (Deutsche Telekom?) are unlikely to be at fault - although that is less certain

My ISP is Deutsche Telekom.

It would be interesting, if we can narrow it more down to a certain region and CIDR. I'm located in Berlin / Germany, which is not that far away from you, pablito.

Let's see if this topics gets more attention with the release of 3.27.

However for now I try to collect the IPs which cause lag spikes. Furthermore I will try to work around it by using another server (Frankfurt, Milan, Amsterdam do all have high lag spikes for me), in case I get lag spikes.

twelve99 (Arelion) is the problem for 12+ years with German Providers, mainly Telekom, in combination with path of exile. I opened a thread here (2016 the first time) and talked to different Telekom Specialists, everyone say it's others problem.
GGG say it's the Routing by ISP.
ISP say it's the Routing Topology by Game Developer. (Telekom, Vodafone and 1&1 all said this)

What could help? A VPN which avoids twelve99, but that's not allowed from GGG's site.

GGG could use better Server locations (Backbone Provider / Peering Service) to fix this, but hey "It's not our Problem".

Telekom could use other Routings, but hey "Why should we use more stable providers, if they are more expensiv?"

The only thing i experienced, that local providers may use other routes. But what's the sence behind chaning ISP's to find one where you can play PoE on a decent state? And even this changes from day to day.


Greetings from Bavaria with the same problem On & Off for over 12 Years. (Check my Mercenary lvl 100 Char's name! :D)

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LikeyX#7028 wrote:

What could help? A VPN which avoids twelve99, but that's not allowed from GGG's site.

Using a VPN is allowed and encouraged especially to troubleshoot the connection.

Source:
GGG Troubleshooting the connection:

https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/3072628

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Eleven777#0993 wrote:

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LikeyX#7028 wrote:

What could help? A VPN which avoids twelve99, but that's not allowed from GGG's site.

Using a VPN is allowed and encouraged especially to troubleshoot the connection.

Source:
GGG Troubleshooting the connection:

https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/3072628

VPN

Hm ok well, that's new to me. Back in the days when i checked it was forbidden.

Thanks for the information.

Maybe i (or we all with this problemation) should give it a try to avoid twelve99. Btw i checked hosts routing, the problem there is also twelve99.