most simple way to turn gambling into crafting

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2ofSpades wrote:

I think the best way to make the bad luck train go away is to create more vendor recipes and fine tune the ones we have. Most of my wealth comes from knowing which items have the greater chance to scrap for alch shard and finding chrom, socket, and chaos recipe items. Adding more vendor recipes will make finding things like 4-links more profitable.


that's what I do as well, but I have a serious problem obtaining Alchemy Shards and using the Chaos Recipe - because my drops are utterly worthless.
it's a vicious cycle really, where one thing leads to another - and that chain someone called "RNG clusterfuck" in my previous thread on the subject, cannot and will not be broken. because it's existence is by design.

this is why Tinghshi's proposal to add shards to all orbs (and vendor recipes for them) is excellent: it reduces RNG's effect on one component in the chain - the dropped currency.

I may even enjoy such a solution if implemented by GGG, as soon as RNG decides to stop raping me to a point, I throw a party with family and friends each time I get something with yellow text.
Alva: I'm sweating like a hog in heat
Shadow: That was fun
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johnKeys wrote:
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BazzV5 wrote:

Why not just play the game the way the wealthier players do and stack your IIR/IIQ?
I mean if increased personal wealth is your goal then it makes sense to do everything within your control to get there....stop being so stubborn and start a new build that can take greater advantage of item IIQ/IIR mods.


my most simple answer to your question, is because very few character builds can afford to prefer IIR/IIQ stacking over other gear modifiers, which are more important in any ARPG and RPG... heck - in every game I played so far.

one of the key things a "be lucky, have Magic Find, or GTFO" attitude destroys completely, is a player's choice in how he/she wants to play.


Not at all man and this is why I mentioned "strategy" in an earlier reply.

Your 1st char should be a high IIQ/IIR build that can farm and create wealth. Then after that you can build whatever the hell you want.

No matter how you see the game, you can't ignore the fact that you do have choice. ...and you've chosen to do it the hard way rather than the easy way.

OB: BazzVone - 83 Dual Spork Totem Templar /w CI and minions
CB: BazzVfourteen - 80 Dual Spork Totem Templar /w CI
CB: BazzVtwo - 73 Dual Spork Totem/LS Templar
CB: BazzVseven - 76 Lightning Strike Mara
CB: BazzVfive - 78 Lightning Strike Mara
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BazzV5 wrote:

Your 1st char should be a high IIQ/IIR build that can farm and create wealth. Then after that you can build whatever the hell you want.

No matter how you see the game, you can't ignore the fact that you do have choice. ...and you've chosen to do it the hard way rather than the easy way.


read your post again, and notice how the 2nd paragraph contradicts the first.

THIS is exactly "stack MF or get out".

sure, my life would have been a lot easier had I followed your advice, and created an OP super-ranged character with a ton of every kind of MF I could get my hands on.

but you see I want to be able to play the game how I want to.
choice. by definition.

the whole point I'm trying to make for the 4th post now (or is it 5th?) is: a MF-stacker might be rich, but a non-MF-stacker should not be piss-poor. he should be slightly more poor than the MF-stacker in the same level range.

on a side note: with the help of 2ofSpades, my luck seems to have improved yesterday.
I got a lot more items with yellow text (which were useless vendor-trash) and near-zero currency, but the sole fact it wasn't all-white drops - makes me happy.
I also think it illustrates just how deep the gap between solo and even the smallest party of two, really is.
Alva: I'm sweating like a hog in heat
Shadow: That was fun
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johnKeys wrote:

but you see I want to be able to play the game how I want to.
choice. by definition.

And you can...but you have to accept the consequences.
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johnKeys wrote:

the whole point I'm trying to make for the 4th post now (or is it 5th?) is: a MF-stacker might be rich, but a non-MF-stacker should not be piss-poor. he should be slightly more poor than the MF-stacker in the same level range.

No...again have to disagree.

There needs to be a big gap between the MF-stackers, as you call them, and the rest. Otherwise it would defeat the purpose of stacking MF.

Again I say I hear where you're coming from but I don't agree with your assessment. The fact that you made it through to end game with spare orbs in your stash tells me that players who choose not to stack IIQ/IIR are getting more than enough drops to finish the game.

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johnKeys wrote:

on a side note: with the help of 2ofSpades, my luck seems to have improved yesterday.
I got a lot more items with yellow text (which were useless vendor-trash) and near-zero currency, but the sole fact it wasn't all-white drops - makes me happy.
I also think it illustrates just how deep the gap between solo and even the smallest party of two, really is.

Good to hear. Maybe 2ofspades was getting last hit more often than not so his IIQ and IIR were being applied to the drops.
OB: BazzVone - 83 Dual Spork Totem Templar /w CI and minions
CB: BazzVfourteen - 80 Dual Spork Totem Templar /w CI
CB: BazzVtwo - 73 Dual Spork Totem/LS Templar
CB: BazzVseven - 76 Lightning Strike Mara
CB: BazzVfive - 78 Lightning Strike Mara
"
BazzV5 wrote:
There needs to be a big gap between the MF-stackers, as you call them, and the rest. Otherwise it would defeat the purpose of stacking MF.

Anyone playing in a party can easily sacrifice damage/survivability for more IIQ/IIR, and you really only need one per group.
Anyone playing solo has to prioritise IIQ/IIR differently (unless playing some boring, non-interactive summoner/multi-totem rubbish).
Last edited by Herpy_Derpleson#6025 on May 6, 2013, 4:52:01 AM
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BazzV5 wrote:
The fact that you made it through to end game with spare orbs in your stash tells me that players who choose not to stack IIQ/IIR are getting more than enough drops to finish the game.

There's certainly enough gear and orb drops to beat Merciless Piety (in a group... if you try her at 64-ish).

The question is, how is this OK in an RPG, to finish the game with bad gear? Yes, MF-ers (if we really, really need to have them, I'd take out these stats and even out the field) need to be significantly richer.

But how about richer than rich?

You start on Normal zombie beaches, piss-poor. Cruel beaches, you have enough to eat and cloth yourself. Merci beaches, you have enough to allow a nice, cosy apartment and a pedicure weekly service. Merci Piety, you have enough to take her out to a fancy goth ball and maybe even try to hit on her. MF mapper, you have enough for your own business multinational enterprise. Yeah the Merci finishers have the last Mercedeses, but you have all the damn Rolls Royce collection, just because you can.

And everybody that puts enough into the game is relatively rich and feels fine.
placeholder for creative sig
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Undon3 wrote:
The question is, how is this OK in an RPG, to finish the game with bad gear?

*finish current content

Game is not completed.
/somethingaboutvideocassettesthatarentvhsbutwithoutthequantitativevalue
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BazzV5 wrote:

There needs to be a big gap between the MF-stackers, as you call them, and the rest. Otherwise it would defeat the purpose of stacking MF.

Again I say I hear where you're coming from but I don't agree with your assessment. The fact that you made it through to end game with spare orbs in your stash tells me that players who choose not to stack IIQ/IIR are getting more than enough drops to finish the game.


you have the full right to disagree, but that's essentially how it works in every game I've played besides Path Of Exile: non-MF get rewarded for effort and skill, and MF get rewarded even more.
it never is an "everything or nothing" kind of thing, nor should it be.
I think MF bonus values should be more rare - to make it super-hard to get things like 300/200 IIQ/IIR - while at the same time become more significant, so people with 30-50 IIR will already see a major difference in drops.
this way, the rich can stay rich - while not giving up on the more important gear modifiers.

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BazzV5 wrote:

Maybe 2ofspades was getting last hit more often than not so his IIQ and IIR were being applied to the drops.


he said he has 0 in both IIR and IIQ...

my point there was the game encourages you to run in a party instead of solo, and that is even more evident in maps.
even 2 players (one of whom has no MF bonuses) get better loot than one. and "professional parties" often do what Herpy_Derpleson said (among other things).

that's all good and understandable - but solo still needs to be a viable option, and one that actually gives the player a choice. right now it is neither.

solo? stack MF (translation: yet another reason not to play melee. ever).
didn't stack MF? play in a party. preferably with someone who did.
playing both solo AND didn't stack MF? you must be masochist. let's see how long you'll last.

the bad, anti-fun design concepts in the game seem to compliment each other, creating a giant clusterfuck. one that includes the RNG-clusterfuck as a notable consequence.
I'll stop here because there are many, many walls of text about this already in the forum.

but the bottom line is this is Beta, and GGG still have plenty of time for changes.
the only remaining question, is are they willing to make such big changes?

as an Alpha Member and supporter, you probably care about this game a lot more than I do. and yet somehow you refuse to see blatant design mistakes that need fixing - for the good of the entire community.
were Alpha and Closed Beta a "take it and shut up" kind of thing? a "play by our rules, or don't play at all"?
Alva: I'm sweating like a hog in heat
Shadow: That was fun
Last edited by johnKeys#6083 on May 6, 2013, 11:57:30 AM
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BazzV5 wrote:
Maybe 2ofspades was getting last hit more often than not so his IIQ and IIR were being applied to the drops.


I hardly notice any difference with my iiq and iir gems on my single target ability that I use only if there is one mob left. Most of my wealth comes from artificial iiq. Yesterday I got 2 uniques within two seconds without the use of these gems (0 iiq and 0 iir). Haven't seen a unique in a while.

Moral of the story, you don't need iir and iiq to gain wealth; it is just nice to have if you find it on some gear you are going to use. If you want to make a build that focuses on iiq and iir, no doubt you will notice a difference in visual drops.

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