T17's Are Complete and Total Design Failure

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Vikerules wrote:

i hate T17s i think they should be removed, i feel like im just wasting my time in T16s farming pennies when T17s exists

I've been having a great league just because I always spam expedition every league and I have a character that's really good at doing it.

I'm not sure what would be better about 17's because I'm not farming them. I've dropped exactly one and it was miserable for me to complete.

im fine with t17 being a frustration, but what I'm not fine with is the fact that the 5th map device slot is tied to it

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SilentSymphony wrote:

I think they're fine, What i don't understand is why so many people think they should be able to clear them when its not content that just any build on even decent gear can do casually.

Though i do not think all of the items locked behind them should be after experiencing the difficulty jump from t16>17 but if there are items locked behind it most of it should be new-content not stuff we were already using or dependent on.

Why is it I can ez mode nearly every other peice of content BUT this. 100D investment in my build and the mechanics are so punishing I have to game the maps. My biggest compaint though...is the arenas. If the boss arenas were bigger it would be MUCH more managable. Take the abomb map, the amount of spamming ground effects makes it impossible to see. Unless you have full aliement immunity good luck. I can't even move out to reset.

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cvrpapc wrote:

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SilentSymphony wrote:

I think they're fine, What i don't understand is why so many people think they should be able to clear them when its not content that just any build on even decent gear can do casually.

Though i do not think all of the items locked behind them should be after experiencing the difficulty jump from t16>17 but if there are items locked behind it most of it should be new-content not stuff we were already using or dependent on.

Why is it I can ez mode nearly every other peice of content BUT this. 100D investment in my build and the mechanics are so punishing I have to game the maps. My biggest compaint though...is the arenas. If the boss arenas were bigger it would be MUCH more managable. Take the abomb map, the amount of spamming ground effects makes it impossible to see. Unless you have full aliement immunity good luck. I can't even move out to reset.

If your having 100d investment and can't clear a t17 that's a YOU issue dude.

Can't farm overtuned annoying t17? No uber bosses for you. Great design

T17 have completely killed the game from my experience + more bad changes

We haven't got 5th Map slot open because of T17 BS. They are supposed to be a stepping stone to UBER yet they are well harder than uber.
Stupid 1 shot mechanics everywhere even at max resistances. Feel like I need a mirror to complete it or just more boring 'let's copy that meta build' fun is completely gone, more like a job to play this yet theres' no pay.

The change in detonanting enemy corpses plays the most horriblly annoying noise, what a terrible design choice.
Killing Kat doesn't even gurantee a veiled ord, so much work for nothing - 1 of the longest game mechanics to unlock the safehouse vs other content.
The scarb design choice was much better and more rewarding before the new changes.
The maven invite system is worse, less ways to make currency.
Have GGG lowered drop rates in T16 for currency drop and pushed things into T17?
Me and a mate been running non-stop T16's not a single Divine raw drop in 3 days, hundreds of 1000s of kills.

Just nothing burgers all over poe, simply need to fire the people behind this league and the changes made. If this kind of rubbish is what's in store for poe 2 then damb son, going to be flopping hard.

The changes they make to combat the 1% of god like group players just seems to be constantly hurting the causal 99% when all they need to do is nerf group play, GGG will lterally hurt 99% of the player base before they actually make a dent on group play and now it's clear to see they have gone to far.
3000 hours played. DONE. RIP.

It what such an accomplishment to get a character to farm t16s, I saw t17s as a new goal for me to achieve. 4x weeks, three characters in the bin, none good enough. I'm not a veteran, but i've been playing poe for 2 years, following build guides, making tweaks to learn how to push the build guides past their limits without having 100D at my disposal. To hear people with much bigger budgets are struggling just diminished my motivation to keep pushing. It's becoming extremely difficult to find a character with both offensive and defensive abilities. With all the limitations and nerfs to defensives over the past few leagues, it's a struggle to keep most builds that aren't max block + aegis aurora + ci builds from consuming all 6x portals. Don't get me started on the economy of this league, absolutely smashed to bits.

tl;dr - t17s didn't achieve the goal of closing the gap

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Have GGG lowered drop rates in T16 for currency drop and pushed things into T17?

Standard league chaos orb post necropolis patch = standard league divine orb pre necropolis patch.

Anyone got an atlas juicing strategy for chaos orbs? Ya, that's how pitiful the drop chances are now.

I completely agree, T17 design is absolutely horrific. I've never enjoyed POE so little and I have played since Beta. Please stop telling people that if they invest 100d and can't complete t17 it's a skill issue. Anyone who even uses that phrase in that way is most likely an immature child. I really hope something is done to put t17 between pinnacle without locking out the majority of the player base from the opportunity to fight pinnacles.

One of my biggest gripes with T17s is how unfun they are. Forget about loot, fragment drops, difficulty scaling, etc. at the end of the day it all comes down to the question: "Is it fun?" and T17s just aren't, in fact it seems like everything about them is designed to be as annoying as possible and all in the worst way possible, this is so baffeling to me.

It starts with the map layouts. They are all long, tight and linear with very little room to maneuver to avoid damage or to "outplay" enemies. That includes most boss arenas. Like how on earth are you supposed to mechanically beat the Abomination Map boss? You can't, you have to brute force it.

Next thing is the enemy types, they made sure to shove in the worst enemies PoE has to offer like Charred Beasts for corpse explosion and all sorts of borrowing monsters that pop out of nowhere with no counterplay or, if you are strong enough, just to be a nuisance. Molten Shell Explody Shamans? Yep.

Speaking about nuisances. The next unfun part are obviously the map mods and they are probably the biggest issue. Again forget about difficulty but there is not a single modifier that makes the game more fun in any way. Right now, its like pick your poison. Pick the thing that is the least sh** shouldn't be the way players should engage in arguably one of the most important endgame mechanics in the game. Like what is up with Unstable Tentacle Fiends for example? Perfect example, they do nothing to you other than being an absolute nuisance. Their long channeling aoe of one-shot death doesn't even keep channeling if you move a screen away, I died far too many times by backtracking (flame dashing/frostblinking) into a Fiend that I have killed earlier but that hast triggered its explode yet. So now, everytime I kill one of these things I have to wait like 10 seconds until I can safely walk forward and that happens 20 times a map. Of course I could reroll maps with that mod but that is a whole different issue in itself. And whats the point really, when pretty much all other exclusive mods are just as bad. Like Mark for death gives you no recovery for 10 seconds, really? Shaper beams in tight, linear levels -> lovely.

Boss fights are either completely trivial (Fortress Boss) or an absolute freak show like the Abomination Boss. At the end, once again, gameplay or skill barely matters, you either outgear (stat check) this content or you will fail.

I have a character that is strong enough to farm T17s, so it isn't even about that anymore but I have yet to play a single T17 that was actually fun to play. Its all about: Am I prepared enough to walk through hell or not with all of the escalating map mods, map layouts, monster types and ridiculousness that is thrown at me.

Just extremely unfun on all fronts and its a little bit worrying to see GGG missing the mark on such an important endgame content by that much (in relations to PoE2).

Realistically they would need to completely redesign those maps and what is actually happening in them but obviously that is not going to happen. So yeah, this is what we got and it will stay, maybe slightly rebalanced next league but I doubt that this will make them actually cool and fun content on top of being challenging.