T17's Are Complete and Total Design Failure

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SilentSymphony wrote:

I think they're fine, What i don't understand is why so many people think they should be able to clear them when its not content that just any build on even decent gear can do casually.

Because! You can manage an Uber with your skills and understanding of the fight, but you HAVE TO go through a gear check now in t17s.

The Main Problem is how the t17 Map where intoduced. As Bridge between normal and über bosses. I killed last League 7/7 übers but t17 Maps will Stop me from doing that. How is that a Bridge, when it is Harder to get to the Other Side.

They introduced T17s before this league, what are you talking about? T17s are community made content where supporters have ability to choose map mods in editor on the web site. They tried to make the maps as difficult / fun as possible.

T17's are not a realistic progression step after T16's and normal bosses.

I just tried out my first two T17's Abomination and Ziggurat. I rolled them somewhat tamely, or so I thought. Granted I am still on my LA Deadeye league starter which is pretty squishy by design so I wasn't expecting much, however I am also pretty easily doing T16's, done all the regular bosses with no issues and just reached level 97. Solid dps, experienced player - I know my positioning and movement.

So, in theory, the next logical step would be doing T17's but these maps felt so overtuned and overscaled that it isn't realistic to succeed them on this build without spending a ludicrous amount of more currency. The gap between T16's and 17's isn't smooth, it's giant. The overwhelming amount of stuff that is thrown at you, during the map and during the boss fights, like all the different ground effects, static beams, additional boss spawns, etc. makes it impossible to outplay that content with skill which is hugely disappointing. Its yet another stat check and I absolutely hate that. Cranking up the numbers to the maximum and having 90% of the tiny boss fight arenas essentially being death zones during a large portion of each fight is just not something that feels fair or engaging. Like yeah sure we can build characters who can face tank all of this stuff but thats not the point of end game balance. Where are the cool mechanical boss fights that good players can succeed even on weaker builds? Like Uber Maven, but Uber Maven is gated behind heartbreakingly sketchy designed T17's.

Edit: So after further consideration I edited a few parts out and wanted to add a little notion. All of the above is my opinion IF the overall goal of T17's was to be a realistic and smooth transition between T16's and well Uber Bossing. This is the general understanding of most players I assume since GGG used the term "bridging content". However, maybe T17s are supposed to be much more closer to actual Uber Boss difficulty than we assume. At the end, if I earn an Uber Fragment, the next logical step would be to slot it into the map device and start the Uber Encounter, there is no in between at this point. So maybe the stat check needs to be as steep for players to be prepared for Uber content. In that context, which I am not sure if it was the design goal, I can accept its difficulty more easily. I feel like it would have been better to warn the player base in the promo that they need Uber ready characters to beat this kinda content and be more aware of what kinda level of build and gear one needs.

They at least feel quite a bit more farmable now after the nerf. There are still mods completely disabling certain builds which I am extremely against seeing introduced into the game. Some of the mods are ArchNemesis extreme edition :P

Sure, we can roll the mods away now with enough chaos which is nice but lets be honest here. (most)Uber bosses are still easier than full clearing these maps. Especially if you want something in return from them. It still feels more worth selling them to people able to juice them thus I stand by my statement that until atlas passive nodes no longer affect the maps GGG has failed to create the bridge-content to ubers that they wanted. In addition they missed the mark on not feeling you lose currency on running the map yourself over selling them to the minmaxers. It is tricky to solve though as without atlas passive nodes the maps become boss rushing maps and nothing else.

I make a character to kill all uber bosses, delve to around 500 depth, complete 38-40 challenges, and make a fun map blaster, maybe even do some 3 man group play magic finding with some close friends, mostly in a group found (we all hate trading) environment.

I tell you all of this because: I took my strongest characters from standard;
the best map blasters i've ever made (3+ mirrors in items) (level 100 deadeye ts original sin +1pc heatshiver/morbid nock)
The best uber bosser i've ever made (shield charge through uber sirus storms and face tank all abilities for kicks) (arakaali's fang max block poison cap with enough auras and tattoos to be used as a support)

and with these 2 characters i tried a few t17s (i used niko / shrine atlas taking almost no increased effect of modifiers nodes)
I was able to full clear them, 6 portals every time, Not one time did it feel like an enjoyable stepping stone to killing uber pinnacles.

My characters are not perfect, but they are far and above the average players in-league build in terms on enjoyment. I cannot see a group-found or ssf method to play the game to actually fight all ubers if these t17s are the requirement. They should not have been made unmodifiable, let me scour these stupid anti-fun mods.

I know there are several builds out there that are able to do these maps.
Not everyone wants to play hexblast mines.
I know if you bring an aurabot it gets easier, but my aurabot this league doesn't want to login if every group find strat just gets nuked as soon as it's discovered, not to mention 95% of players don't have an aurabot on standby.

What does the Maven say? Not Good.

Tier17 maps in its current form are terrible. I hate it so much. These mods are so dumb.

This "T17" feels more like T25 or T30. The gap in difficulty is very large, much larger than it needs to be.

Not much left to say.

Perhaps the idea was that since Necropolis isn't much fun to play they didn't want to ruin their streak by making T17 maps fun to play?

T17 bad.