Melee Thread #97865
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On the topic of 'what's melee', my personal line is "hitting enemy in the face."
So, Wild Strike is melee, because you've got to be hitting enemy in the face to do anything, and Lightning Strike is not, as it shoots the projectiles no matter whether you hit something or not. Yes, LS does more damage when you actually hit in melee, but so do bow builds with point blank, and I really wouldn't call them melee builds... | |
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We in HC have problems to reach 2M DPS with melee. :-)
MY CHALLENGES ARE DONE ON HC, IT'S NOT SC GUYS!
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" I can follow this. The problem is that certain Slam skills have a HUGE area, where you hit the ground first, just like LS. DO you consider those skills more melee than LS? Don't get me wrong here, as I do follow and agree with your logic. It just proves that the whole melee/attack system in PoE is more or less corrupted. You have melee attacks with a projectile part, you have ranged skills that scale off of your melee weapon, but do not have a melee tag or a melee part. It's just a big mess, if you ask me. The melee tag itself doesn't really mean anything. There are actually quite a few melee damage nodes on the tree. No one takes them, as most melee skills have a secondary tag that doesn't scale with melee, at least most non-slam skills. Anyway, I'm just rambling at this point. I think what I miss the most, is that melee builds that are mainly scaling through your weapon and damage nodes on the tree, seems very hard to build these days - especially pure physical skills. To achieve greatness, it all seems to be about stacking mechanics - and scale the few things that remain "ok" or "op", like Elusive, Exerted attacks and other non-generic damage nodes. Bring me some coffee and I'll bring you a smile.
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" When i am talking about "well made" then i am not neccessarily talking about "throwing money at them". Yes, you can do that too. Make a trash build and throw multiple mirrors worth at legacy gear at it and then bragg about how awesome you are like a certain moron on this forum likes to do. What i mean by well made, is achieving high performance with relatively low investment. All my builds mentioned use weapon scaling and as i said, they all have mediocre weapons or even use cheap uniques. I don't know what your standard is for DPS but the fact is you can achieve 10+ mio DPS using stuff like Paradoxica and Savior who are close to being free a few weeks into the league. If you think that's bad or "not enough" i guess then it's a difference of experience, i find it more than enough for everything besides ubers. As for leveling, as i said, melee needs a bunch of loops to jump though to feel good so i don't recommend doing it for league start. I've leveled a few but it was with Tabula. Then again, there is no need to actually go Heavy Strike from level 1 to 100 is there? Just use Spectral Helix for leveling and switch later, where is the problem? Not like every caster is great at league starting. Or do you go full RF from the beginning? My problem honestly isn't as much with the state of melee, i freely admit there are issues. What's pissing me off is that completely screwed perspective on spells from people who seemingly never played anything outside of the top 5 spell builds from POE ninja and seem to think that any spell build is by default some mixture of RF Inquisitor toughness with poison seismic trap dps that can do ubers on a 4 link by just standing still when the reality of non meta spells is as far off of that as it can possibly be. If you want an example build, here: https://pastebin.com/NCwCDR24 That's my dual striker slightly adjusted by removing the stuff that's now legacy (essentially the flask prefixes getting -1) unless i've missed something. Please note that the DPS shown is without flasks and without Berserk active so it's "only" 7 mio including the reflections. Peak with everything off is 18 mio though that obviously only lasts for a few seconds. Meanwhile the build can eat Die beams, 3 consecutive Shaper balls, Shaper Slams or stand still against Al Hezmin while his snakes do their worst. Biggest issue are degens in situations where you can't leech. Feel free to judge yourself whether something like this is achievable in league. As for smoothness i can't say what's smooth for you so that's something you'd have to try yourself. I think it's smooth enough, not RF levels where you just run through and stuff explodes, you actually have to click for things to blow up but imo that's just playing the game. I usually switch melee phys to splash for everything that isn't a pinnacle boss fight or a Maven invitation. /edit in terms of smoothness i guess there is the big? minus of having to place totems in boss fights. It's become second nature to me at this point so i don't really care but i can understand other people hating it. Last edited by Baharoth15#0429 on Oct 3, 2022, 7:38:07 AM
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Can't believe this stuff is still going. It's been really obvious for a long time melee is supposed to be harder. Makes no sense people think everything should be able to nuke literally everything with moderate investment and effort. Just don't play it if you don't like it, why try to change something a lot of people do like?
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Well here is the short, sad, hard, truth.
GGG doesn't want to design around melee, at least not true close encounter melee. It leads to all sorts of development issues with regards to the mob encounters they traditionally like. The current game state, with degens, on death effects, ground and tracking effects, just punishes a close, and/or more stationary play-style. I heard CW talking about some cool animations coming in PoE 4.0, but honestly, that's just talk. Animations are not whats wrong with melee, and even worse GGG doesn't even really see it as an issue. I find it nearly impossible that the way the game is designed, that a traditional melee skill/build will compete with ranged/spells. In summary, the reason it looks like GGG doesn't care about melee (in general), is because the don't. "Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt." - Abraham Lincoln Last edited by DarthSki44#6905 on Oct 3, 2022, 10:00:19 AM
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" Gave it a quick look out of curiosity... I couldn't find any chest like this ever listed in Kalandra even without the 12 % increased maximum life, so if that isn't straight up a legacy item, it's probably mirror tier. The watcher's eye is legacy - phys to elemental conversion rolls at 6-10 interval, not a big deal, but worth mentioning. Uncompromising + self-control can't roll together on a medium cluster jewel anymore, not a big deal since the build doesn't really use self-control. Also, it's a scion build that starts from slayer, and most defenses come from divine flesh + phys to elemental damage conversion on items, so this perfectly summarized the problem with melee - it's fine when you first farm items for it on some other build, but there's no way this build makes itself from league start without playing half of the league with something else and then doing a full respec (in particular, all defenses, especially against physical, come from lategame items, so if you were to play this from leaguestart, it wouldn't get through yellow maps by itself). Last edited by Xyel#0284 on Oct 3, 2022, 11:46:25 AM
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Your statement regarding the Watchers Eye is flat out wrong. https://www.pathofexile.com/trade/search/Kalandra/dlqjOiJ
As for the armor, it was a lucky life fossil hitting two tier 1 life mods (regular + hunter. Crafted it last league iirc so i still remember). Assuming craft of exile is correct, those mods can still roll as such. The power charges were prefix cannot be changed + scour + crit harvest reforge (2 out of 3 chance for either powercharges or attack crit, both would have been fine for me). The +8 mitigation was a lucky exalt slam back when all my exalts turned worthless after this leagues annoucement. So yeah, definetely not legacy and i highly doubt it's even remotely close to mirror tier because of 2 tier one rolls. All the more considering that the hunter mods can be replaced with a 8% increased bench craft for almost the same result. As for your summary of melee, i don't really disagree. I wouldn't want to play dual strike as a league starter, way too bothersome. That said, the only late game defensive item is the divine flesh. You could just go with some speccing into max res until you get it. 79 max res is possible from tree alone, it's probably more effective against most content that way. Main reason for divine flesh is to counter penetration from Simulacrum and uber Shaper. If you don't plan on doing that stuff you might as well skip it. Last edited by Baharoth15#0429 on Oct 4, 2022, 4:39:34 PM
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Just for the sake of bringing up something different...
When was the last time you saw active public parties? This game was designed with party play in mind. It was never the traditional "Caster, melee/tank, ranged, healer" scenario. But it still had party play in mind. Public parties are a thing of the past for most people. However if you look at melee from the perspective of party play, it takes a completely different form because it doesn't need high clear speed. As the game matured, party play got left behind for most players. For solo play, melee needs good clear speed, and no "real" melee is ever going to be good for the zoom zoom, clear the whole screen game style. It makes me wonder if internal GGG thinking ever asked the question, "If we don't have party play as originally intended, how does that affect melee?" You could argue that the loss of party play is behind the shift from melee to other build types. |
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" I could list here a hundred boss mechanics that would feel rewarding for melee and punishing for ranged. They just don't wanna do it. "buff grenades"
- Buff Grenades (Buff-Grenades) |
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