Absolution

Will spell echo work with Vaal Absolution? Spell Echo states it cannot support Vaal Skills, however Vaal Absolution states the upgraded sentinel receives the benefits of support gems.

What is the interaction here?

There is a Crucible passive that states:

"Increases and Reductions to Minion Damage also affect Dominating Blow and Absolution at 150% of their value"

Does this higher damage apply only to the player's hits with Dom Blow and Absolution?

Or does this mean both the player and the minions created by Dom Blow and Absolution have higher damage?

i'll preface my critique by saying i'm relatively new and i'm not amazing at making builds work. but here i go. i run an absolution based heirophant. i'm a big fan of stacking absolution and smite for higher dps, but honestly i'm struggling really hard to make it practical. i tried the same thing last league (on an inquisitor) and it just could not produce enough damage to be viable without investing WAY too much into it. i'm doing better THIS league, but it already feels like the writing is on the wall. damage wise it just isnt a gem that can ever be meta. it's area is too small, and it chews through mana when you start using support gems to push it's damage to even close to reasonable levels. i'm only pulling about 16k dps while under the effects of arcane surge, smite, and herald of purity, while using four support gems (concentrated destruction, spell echo, physical to lightning, cruelty), and i cant seem to find a way to push beyond that to something usable at later levels.

granted it's not a 100% optimized build but personally i think there is something wrong if you are required to invest stacks of chaos to see returns, and going forward i dont see a way to make this build WORK without that sort of cheese. where i'm at in the game that sort of damage is okish, but what about end tier? i dont see a way forward. even with good items. what would i even use? something hyper niche, several cluster gems and div+ eyes? i've yet to see a build out there that can make absolution's damage useful once you hit maps, so i dont even know where to start.

the minions are another thing, really. limited to three, they are negligible. they're great for distracting mobs and taking the heat off when you're swarmed, but they offer such little actual damage that the only thing they're good for is plinking trash mobs. which are getting nuked by absolution's damage before they get the chance, generally.

i'd like to see a higher limit to the number of minions it summons to make them more useful, and i'd like to see more damage opportunity with the skill. the best builds for absolution are orders of magnitude less powerful than 'main' skills, making absolution basically useless at late game. more aoe would also be great, because having such a concentrated effect with such low damage (and so high a mana cost to get there! my build uses 73 mana a cast!) is really REALLY underwhelming. reduce the mana cost and increase attack speed maybe. it's already a decently fast spell but i dont know any other suggestions i could make.

"

Dskin wrote:

Will spell echo work with Vaal Absolution? Spell Echo states it cannot support Vaal Skills, however Vaal Absolution states the upgraded sentinel receives the benefits of support gems.

What is the interaction here?

the vaal skill ascends one of your sentinels to godhood. you are limited to 1 ascended sentinel. so even if it triggered twice it wouldnt do anything, except buy you an echo's worth of longer duration

i can confirm that it works with the regular absolution skill of a vaal gem though, if that's what you're asking. or do you mean the minion powers? i cant say i remember seeing them echo, but i wasnt specifically looking

"

Couerl wrote:

Spoiler

i'll preface my critique by saying i'm relatively new and i'm not amazing at making builds work. but here i go. i run an absolution based heirophant. i'm a big fan of stacking absolution and smite for higher dps, but honestly i'm struggling really hard to make it practical. i tried the same thing last league (on an inquisitor) and it just could not produce enough damage to be viable without investing WAY too much into it. i'm doing better THIS league, but it already feels like the writing is on the wall. damage wise it just isnt a gem that can ever be meta. it's area is too small, and it chews through mana when you start using support gems to push it's damage to even close to reasonable levels. i'm only pulling about 16k dps while under the effects of arcane surge, smite, and herald of purity, while using four support gems (concentrated destruction, spell echo, physical to lightning, cruelty), and i cant seem to find a way to push beyond that to something usable at later levels.

granted it's not a 100% optimized build but personally i think there is something wrong if you are required to invest stacks of chaos to see returns, and going forward i dont see a way to make this build WORK without that sort of cheese. where i'm at in the game that sort of damage is okish, but what about end tier? i dont see a way forward. even with good items. what would i even use? something hyper niche, several cluster gems and div+ eyes? i've yet to see a build out there that can make absolution's damage useful once you hit maps, so i dont even know where to start.

the minions are another thing, really. limited to three, they are negligible. they're great for distracting mobs and taking the heat off when you're swarmed, but they offer such little actual damage that the only thing they're good for is plinking trash mobs. which are getting nuked by absolution's damage before they get the chance, generally.

Spoiler

i'd like to see a higher limit to the number of minions it summons to make them more useful, and i'd like to see more damage opportunity with the skill. the best builds for absolution are orders of magnitude less powerful than 'main' skills, making absolution basically useless at late game. more aoe would also be great, because having such a concentrated effect with such low damage (and so high a mana cost to get there! my build uses 73 mana a cast!) is really REALLY underwhelming. reduce the mana cost and increase attack speed maybe. it's already a decently fast spell but i dont know any other suggestions i could make.

You normally scale the minion damage with Absolution to get the minions do actual damage.
But your character only scales the hit damage of the skill itself which is the wrong way to do unless you have some 10+ div gear that does not need the minion part. No wonder your minions do no damage.

I suggest you make a new character and focus on minion nodes on the passive tree and minion affixes on your items like increased minion damage/attack speed and resists.

Look at POE Ninja builds (https://poe.ninja/challenge/builds) that use Absolution as main skill (5+ links) to get an idea what support gems/auras/passives tree and items it needs to get functional.