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no one has missed your point... it's just wrong. was then, is now, will be later
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Posted byJosephoenix#2379on Mar 27, 2013, 9:31:28 PM
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I wouldn't call his point "wrong." You can make an argument that pay for convenience is a kind of pay for win. It's just that it's neither here nor there, as GGG is not against that kind of pay 2 win. They would almost certainly argue terms on this, and say, "no, it's not pay to win," but it doesn't really matter. Tossing aside terms, we have pay for convenience, and pay for pretty shinies, and that's the business model. It's nicer than "pay for stuff that you really need," and worse (from a consumer perspective) of "pay for nothing," but you know:
For them to be in business, it has to be "someone buys stuff," because they need to be monetized. Arguing about it won't net any set of changes. It is what it is.
--C
Last edited by Courageous#0687 on Mar 27, 2013, 9:42:45 PM
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Posted byCourageous#0687on Mar 27, 2013, 9:42:01 PM
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The gaming community uses the term p2w to complain about anything they have to pay for. Devs should just stop using it, and either start being more specific or more broad.
I play PlanetSide 2, and people call EVERYTHING they dont want to pay for p2w, even if it doesnt fit the traditional meaning of the word.
The majority of the complaints should be ignored anyway. People are smart enough to know if something is of value to them. There are games with REAL p2w schemes that still do very well. Games like PoE or PS2 truly have nothing to worry about. \
It almost seems as if trying to be "fair" backfires and causes people to complain even more because they now feel entitled, whereas a real p2w can overcharge and do what they want since they made no promises.
Last edited by GameQB11#0938 on Mar 27, 2013, 9:47:07 PM
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Posted byGameQB11#0938on Mar 27, 2013, 9:45:56 PM
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I totally agree with OP, for most people it's about how far it goes, how obvious it is, does it cross some acceptable threshold for you?
Even if I consider stash tabs to be indirectly, in some capacity a p2w thing (as I would for anything that I could pay for that increases efficiency, if it's provided by the developer), it doesn't put me off the game (considering the personally low impact) nor am I going to try and force my view on others. I can deal with it.
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Posted byDeletedon Mar 27, 2013, 10:08:24 PM
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Time equals money and every waking hour is an investment. This game requires a massive investment of time to be what some may consider successful. There is no such thing as free to win, perhaps cheap to win depending on how useful one's time is and what their definition of success is.
Personally I value my time outside of work at a respectful non taxable $40 per hour and have spent maybe a solid hundred plus hours playing PoE. That means I have invested the equivalent of $4000 playing this game without feeling successful yet. Perhaps once I reach the $12k mark my investment will equal win. Steep prices bro.
Consequently money is the root of all evil so winning at PoE is essentially evil squared.
You see, there's three kinds of "there". There's "there", t-h-e-r-e: "There are the donuts." Then there's "their", t-h-e-i-r, which is the possessive: "It is their donut." Then finally, there's "they're", t-h-e-y-apostrophe-r-e. A contraction meaning: "They're... they're the donut people." Got it?
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Posted byBalthbeorn#4756on Mar 27, 2013, 10:09:27 PM
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how bad is it when you have to post a long thread about common sense?
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Posted byPsychoT#3500on Mar 27, 2013, 10:09:30 PM
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"
Courageous wrote:
Hi, AintCare.
Howarya?
I think ultimately it's not a matter of "balsy" or not. It's just a matter of accepting how it is that they look at things. They are not tossing out a challenge for others to overcome or fight with; they are deciding on a business model, and looking to describe it the best they know how. Ultimately, they are against mode 1, but not 2 and 3. Which words do you want them to put to it? See what I mean?
Have you ever played a free game that sells stuff to help you actually win the game directly? Well I have. And that is what they are against.
The reason that they are favor of pay for convenience is that it is a good motivator to spend money. For example, all of my bronze points and most of the rest of my purchases have gone into premium stash tabs. They are super useful, and incented me into buying stuff from them. And I'm sure they are happy with that, you know?
Getting trapped up over terms isn't going to help.
That is all.
--C
QFT
"the premier Action RPG for hardcore gamers."
-GGG
Happy hunting/fishing
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Posted byWittgenstein#0994on Mar 27, 2013, 10:13:12 PMAlpha Member
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AintCare wrote:
like I said, I was playing D3, and I could get ANYTHING in the game as a free player.. but more stash tabs on account and labels for them I will never get for free in PoE
Did you just say you were a "free player" in D3?
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Posted byDeletedon Mar 27, 2013, 10:51:16 PM
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"
AintCare wrote:
"
Wittgenstein wrote:
"
Courageous wrote:
Hi, AintCare.
Howarya?
I think ultimately it's not a matter of "balsy" or not. It's just a matter of accepting how it is that they look at things. They are not tossing out a challenge for others to overcome or fight with; they are deciding on a business model, and looking to describe it the best they know how. Ultimately, they are against mode 1, but not 2 and 3. Which words do you want them to put to it? See what I mean?
Have you ever played a free game that sells stuff to help you actually win the game directly? Well I have. And that is what they are against.
The reason that they are favor of pay for convenience is that it is a good motivator to spend money. For example, all of my bronze points and most of the rest of my purchases have gone into premium stash tabs. They are super useful, and incented me into buying stuff from them. And I'm sure they are happy with that, you know?
Getting trapped up over terms isn't going to help.
That is all.
--C
QFT
Sure is true that quote of yours... problem is it shows that GGG sells improvements for cash
then turns around and says, oh nono we are 100% non-pay2win, buuut you know its just a stash tab in a loot based game :), oh you wonder if you can get it for free somehow? nono, its only in the cash shop :)
like I said, I was playing D3, and I could get ANYTHING in the game as a free player.. but more stash tabs on account and labels for them I will never get for free in PoE
Create a new account. There you go, 4 stash tabs for free. You can do this as many times as you want since it's free.
Last edited by Reizoko#4460 on Mar 27, 2013, 10:54:25 PM
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Posted byReizoko#4460on Mar 27, 2013, 10:54:02 PM
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"
AintCare wrote:
"
Wittgenstein wrote:
"
Courageous wrote:
Hi, AintCare.
Howarya?
I think ultimately it's not a matter of "balsy" or not. It's just a matter of accepting how it is that they look at things. They are not tossing out a challenge for others to overcome or fight with; they are deciding on a business model, and looking to describe it the best they know how. Ultimately, they are against mode 1, but not 2 and 3. Which words do you want them to put to it? See what I mean?
Have you ever played a free game that sells stuff to help you actually win the game directly? Well I have. And that is what they are against.
The reason that they are favor of pay for convenience is that it is a good motivator to spend money. For example, all of my bronze points and most of the rest of my purchases have gone into premium stash tabs. They are super useful, and incented me into buying stuff from them. And I'm sure they are happy with that, you know?
Getting trapped up over terms isn't going to help.
That is all.
--C
QFT
Sure is true that quote of yours... problem is it shows that GGG sells improvements for cash
then turns around and says, oh nono we are 100% non-pay2win, buuut you know its just a stash tab in a loot based game :), oh you wonder if you can get it for free somehow? nono, its only in the cash shop :)
like I said, I was playing D3, and I could get ANYTHING in the game as a free player.. but more stash tabs on account and labels for them I will never get for free in PoE
The distinction you have to make is that you can gain huge, instantaneous efficiency boosts in that game. PoE is nowhere near that.
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Posted byDeletedon Mar 27, 2013, 10:59:06 PM
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