The Future of Stash Tabs

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vio wrote:

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Archwizard wrote:

Yeah no. This response misses the point that a lot of us are making. My issue isn't with organizing the new tabs, it's with the existence of the new tabs.

I expected the premium tabs I bought for Maps, Fragments, and Currency to hold and interact properly with all future: Maps, Fragments, and Currencies.

This is now clearly not the case. GGG does not see this concern as valid and feels that whatever losses they may experience over this decision will be outweighed by the gains. That's a valid business decision and only time will tell if it works out for them. The odds of me being here to find out have definitely gone way down.

don't you think they wouldn't have gone this way if really needed?

i mean i've ever been for battle passes for league content and this sounds more and more like a good idea to keep those "OMG, HEY MADE ME SPEND 10 DOLLARS ON THE GAME, CAN YOU IMAGINE!!!1111" hyperbolies out.

I'm not quite sure what you're trying to say here. I've been thinking about this even more lately, especially after someone said they weren't sure why Scarabs are in the fragments tab.

So, to me, currency is any item used to modify another item. This makes oils, delirium orbs, catalysts, and similar items currency.

Fragments are anything, or their constituent parts, other than a map you put in the map device. So simulacrum splinters and the simulacrum are fragments.

Maps are well, maps. So blighted maps go in the maps tab.

Anything else could reasonably go in a new tab, such as the Metamorph body parts.

This is why I don't mind fossils being in their own tab. Sure, I would categorize the resonators as currency but the fossils are not and having them in the same tab makes sense. Divination cards are another great example of an item that deserves its own tab.

Essences are currency and really should be part of the currency tab, but because there are so many and it seemed an exception to the rule of currency going into the currency tab... well, I sort of didn't care. Shame on me on that one I guess.

But now we're at the point where new league = new tab if there's a decent amount of stuff, or new league = tough shit if there isn't. For example, Incursion vials, Breach blessings, Betrayal enhanced breachstones. Those should be in currency, currency, and fragments respectively.

The idea is one of trust and holding GGG to the expectations they've set. This is why anytime anyone has ever suggested they bring back old packs I've felt confident it won't happen, because they said it won't. (And on that one I still believe that.)

Not updating existing tabs to hold stuff that they should hold violates that trust. It could cost $0.01 per tab or $10.

I obviously have no problem paying money for this game, I do have a problem paying for these tabs.

"Both of these features are still on the drawing board, are a while away from release (ideally before 3.12 though) and may be cancelled or changed if problems come up during development."

I wonder if it was even on the board two days ago.

"Tab Affinities" better than harvest league x'D with this i might even continue to play xd

"

I'm not quite sure what you're trying to say here. I've been thinking about this even more lately, especially after someone said they weren't sure why Scarabs are in the fragments tab.

So, to me, currency is any item used to modify another item. This makes oils, delirium orbs, catalysts, and similar items currency.

Fragments are anything, or their constituent parts, other than a map you put in the map device. So simulacrum splinters and the simulacrum are fragments.

Maps are well, maps. So blighted maps go in the maps tab.

Anything else could reasonably go in a new tab, such as the Metamorph body parts.

This is why I don't mind fossils being in their own tab. Sure, I would categorize the resonators as currency but the fossils are not and having them in the same tab makes sense. Divination cards are another great example of an item that deserves its own tab.

Essences are currency and really should be part of the currency tab, but because there are so many and it seemed an exception to the rule of currency going into the currency tab... well, I sort of didn't care. Shame on me on that one I guess.

But now we're at the point where new league = new tab if there's a decent amount of stuff, or new league = tough shit if there isn't. For example, Incursion vials, Breach blessings, Betrayal enhanced breachstones. Those should be in currency, currency, and fragments respectively.

The idea is one of trust and holding GGG to the expectations they've set. This is why anytime anyone has ever suggested they bring back old packs I've felt confident it won't happen, because they said it won't. (And on that one I still believe that.)

Not updating existing tabs to hold stuff that they should hold violates that trust. It could cost $0.01 per tab or $10.

I obviously have no problem paying money for this game, I do have a problem paying for these tabs.

I do agree !

"

Archwizard wrote:

"

vio wrote:

"

Archwizard wrote:

Yeah no. This response misses the point that a lot of us are making. My issue isn't with organizing the new tabs, it's with the existence of the new tabs.

I expected the premium tabs I bought for Maps, Fragments, and Currency to hold and interact properly with all future: Maps, Fragments, and Currencies.

This is now clearly not the case. GGG does not see this concern as valid and feels that whatever losses they may experience over this decision will be outweighed by the gains. That's a valid business decision and only time will tell if it works out for them. The odds of me being here to find out have definitely gone way down.

don't you think they wouldn't have gone this way if really needed?

i mean i've ever been for battle passes for league content and this sounds more and more like a good idea to keep those "OMG, HEY MADE ME SPEND 10 DOLLARS ON THE GAME, CAN YOU IMAGINE!!!1111" hyperbolies out.

I'm not quite sure what you're trying to say here. I've been thinking about this even more lately, especially after someone said they weren't sure why Scarabs are in the fragments tab.

So, to me, currency is any item used to modify another item. This makes oils, delirium orbs, catalysts, and similar items currency.

Fragments are anything, or their constituent parts, other than a map you put in the map device. So simulacrum splinters and the simulacrum are fragments.

Maps are well, maps. So blighted maps go in the maps tab.

Anything else could reasonably go in a new tab, such as the Metamorph body parts.

This is why I don't mind fossils being in their own tab. Sure, I would categorize the resonators as currency but the fossils are not and having them in the same tab makes sense. Divination cards are another great example of an item that deserves its own tab.

Essences are currency and really should be part of the currency tab, but because there are so many and it seemed an exception to the rule of currency going into the currency tab... well, I sort of didn't care. Shame on me on that one I guess.

But now we're at the point where new league = new tab if there's a decent amount of stuff, or new league = tough shit if there isn't. For example, Incursion vials, Breach blessings, Betrayal enhanced breachstones. Those should be in currency, currency, and fragments respectively.

The idea is one of trust and holding GGG to the expectations they've set. This is why anytime anyone has ever suggested they bring back old packs I've felt confident it won't happen, because they said it won't. (And on that one I still believe that.)

Not updating existing tabs to hold stuff that they should hold violates that trust. It could cost $0.01 per tab or $10.

I obviously have no problem paying money for this game, I do have a problem paying for these tabs.

Agreed on every point.

"

Archwizard wrote:

...

I will save you the trouble of having to explain what is what by saying that from a programming classification standpoint almost everything is “currency.” Here is one example and I am too lazy to dig up all the other threads but most things are stackable currency and therefore should fall under the premium currency tab classification.

Edit: ok ok I looked up blight as well so the oils are also - technically - currency.

"

I'm not quite sure what you're trying to say here. I've been thinking about this even more lately, especially after someone said they weren't sure why Scarabs are in the fragments tab.

So, to me, currency is any item used to modify another item. This makes oils, delirium orbs, catalysts, and similar items currency.

Fragments are anything, or their constituent parts, other than a map you put in the map device. So simulacrum splinters and the simulacrum are fragments.

Maps are well, maps. So blighted maps go in the maps tab.

Anything else could reasonably go in a new tab, such as the Metamorph body parts.

This is why I don't mind fossils being in their own tab. Sure, I would categorize the resonators as currency but the fossils are not and having them in the same tab makes sense. Divination cards are another great example of an item that deserves its own tab.

Essences are currency and really should be part of the currency tab, but because there are so many and it seemed an exception to the rule of currency going into the currency tab... well, I sort of didn't care. Shame on me on that one I guess.

But now we're at the point where new league = new tab if there's a decent amount of stuff, or new league = tough shit if there isn't. For example, Incursion vials, Breach blessings, Betrayal enhanced breachstones. Those should be in currency, currency, and fragments respectively.

The idea is one of trust and holding GGG to the expectations they've set. This is why anytime anyone has ever suggested they bring back old packs I've felt confident it won't happen, because they said it won't. (And on that one I still believe that.)

Not updating existing tabs to hold stuff that they should hold violates that trust. It could cost $0.01 per tab or $10.

I obviously have no problem paying money for this game, I do have a problem paying for these tabs.

+1. This chap understands

In 3.12? Maybe, maybe not.

As of now, you just presented cash grab, this poor clarification does not show anything.

Problems are created to produce more stashes to produce more money - but in the meantime micromanaging this become 60% of gameplay.

Also, harvest is shallow league... So much disapointment :(

Let's be honest GGG : if you would have made the classic currency tab today, you would have splitted and sold it at least in four different parts like : a tab for blue stuff, one for yellow, one for quality and one for maps (sextants and chisels). Why not making a prophecy or scarab tab while you're at it ? It's totally on your current tab politic. Ah yeah it's too late because this league specific currencies have been put in the currency and fragments ones long time ago, at a time when you were concerned about PACKING stuff for more convenience. All leagues have currencies and fragments but now they get their own tab every single time.

It's absolutely the opposite nowaday compared to before : you are splitting stuff over and over. That's why 90% of people hate you dedicated paltry new tabs. Just look at the currency's density of stuff it contains and the three new ones you have just released . . . sorry but personally I do think it says a lot from your slide ! You know, if you have kept the habit to PACK stuff in tabs, we wouldn't even need an auto-sort command to put stuff in our stash. It's like having a binder : putting some dividers in is useful to sort different types of documents, but if you put one divider per piece of paper to sort every single one it becomes far worse and less convenient.

Here it's exactly what you're doing, you divide everything and give the command to auto-sort through all of the mess it makes because the sorting/playing time ratio gets worse and worse every league, I'm sorry but this is an admission of the failed design of dedicated tabs. It's like poisoning someone on purpose and working on a cure afterwards . . .

From the perspective of a free to play freeloader, I have to say that this issue is the main reason why I don't invest in tabs and just play the game ultra-casually and just watch streamers and YouTubers deal with end-game content (that and the performance issues I get with frame drops on mob spawn on a Ryzen 5 1600+GTX 1070 btw).

The post-purchase devaluing of a product is something every company should stay away from, within reason, of course. To prevent an angry mob of customers coming at you with pitchforks and torches calling out "cash grab" whenever you provide a solution to a problem you yourself created in the pursuit of innovation and content creation to maintain player retention and spending.

I get that this is a free to play game, and a company has to make money somehow, but this is the wrong way about it. Gameplay related issues should not be solved by microtransactions, not if it can be prevented, and especially so, if you want a happy clientele that is. Stash tabs are NOT optional in this game.

Let us be realistic for a moment, the game is not free to play for anyone that takes it seriously, multiple of the stash tabs like the original currency tab, and maps are outright mandatory to have. There is also the fact that trading without premium tabs is borderline impossible to anyone that wants to stay relevant in the fluctuating market of a league start. You can't just stand there typing what you want to sell/buy in trade chat if you want to be at the top of the economy and getting an early boost to your capital.

I would rather have the game be "buy to play" at U$60, no less since the game itself, the content put out and the constant content updates outright justify that purchase. But then provide me with unlimited, or close to unlimited storage by simply have the league related stashes be tied to each league's corresponding NPC (just like current Oshabi tab being exclusive to her and tied to the grove) with the MTX option being the QoL change of making that tab show up on my personal stash instead of having me walk around talking to different NPCs to store every drop I got pertaining to each different mechanic.

Lastly, my solution of going buy to play also diminishes the problem with bots. Which at the moment makes the economy of softcore leagues simply a joke, diluting the value of the currency and pushing prices of items higher and higher ever farther out of reach of those casual players that look for no guides and just jump in to play, stumble through the passive tree, and never make it to or past A10 and experience the rich end-game this game has to offer. But the new player experience is a completely different can of worms.


Best regards, loving this league. I hope you come up with a solution that does appease most users, especially those that have already invested in the game and want value out of their purchases. Feel free to ignore the suggestions of a free to play player like myself. Have a nice year, stay happy and healthy.