Was there a reason GGG removed the best map in the game?

yeah gorge map need come back T-T

off the subject but i herd ages ago that a ggg staff die to an old master mission so they remove that. mayb ggg staff die in that map

Because, simply put, Gorge wasn't linear AT ALL. Too many bends kills a map.

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bvanharjr wrote:

Because, simply put, Gorge wasn't linear AT ALL. Too many bends kills a map.

Linear doesn't just mean a straight line: 'Progressing from one stage to another in a single series of steps; sequential. Narrow and elongated with parallel margins'

The term was continuous.

Why argue about this now? It was removed 1,5 years ago.

The Gorge map has been replaced by the Glacier map. Existing Gorge maps will now open portals to Glacier.

Patch 3.5.0
December 7, 2018

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gibbousmoon wrote:

I've always been a fan of your insistence that full-clear necessity and linearity, when linked, equate to desirable game design, due to the non-desirability of backtracking in games of this nature (that is to say, in games which are not designed to be relaxing walking simulators).

Apparently one of the GGG mods is less of a fan. <snort> I don't think I've ever seen more "[Removed by Support]" in a single post before. Still, kudos for them just selectively censoring your post and not stealth-deleting it outright, Blizzard-style.

theyre removing the words shit and crap every time i use them apparently. i can go through the forum and probably find you 1000 instances of people calling a map, an item, a gem, a class etc shit this year that have not been edited but apparently consistency isnt a thing.

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Phrazz wrote:

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Turtledove wrote:

I didn't realize that the gorge map had been removed. It was the best map in the game. Although IIRC, they shortened it at one point before it was deleted. So, it was the best map in the game before it was shortened.

This seems strange to me that it was removed. I mean I read some arguments that it was removed because it was too popular. I have difficulty understanding that but can't figure out any other rational???

It wasn't removed because it was too popular. It was removed because of the same reasons it was popular.

They did shorten it. They did reduce the density. But it was still so much faster, safer and better than everything else. So GGG did what hey often do; they took the easy way out. So instead of adjusting all other maps, the focused their attention on Gorge and decided to remove it.

I miss it. I also miss the old Strand layout. And the old Atoll (Mountain Ledge) layout.

that amounts to the same thing. fast is a measure of xp, they can change xp rates without removing peoples favorite maps. what ur saying is right but its the result of what ur saying, that people loved the map because it was linear, thats the problem. it results in people just wanting to play that map and not the other maps, same with strand, what ur saying results in popularity and that is the problem.

cloak of defiance was nerfed at a point where it was pretty mediocre in terms of defense it gave, but it was too popular and people wernt using other things as a result. vault was popular for its div cards, again changed. things are out of balance all the time in many different ways, its usually only when that results in the thing being too popular that they act on it. if a map technically offered better rewards than the others but it wasnt popular and no one was chaining it they probably wouldnt do anything about it. they probably wouldnt even know cause what they are looking at is simply the stats of what people are playing, what they are equipping etc.

theyre monitoring popularity first and foremost as a gauge for balance across the spectrum. maps, items, classes, gems, the whole lot, because outside of literally game breaking bugs stuff only matters when it results in over popularity. im not saying thats universally bad as an approach but i think you got to deeply evaluate some of these instances because if you just shoot everything thats extremely popular in the head youre basically destroying all the cool things in your game right? not everything is a power play and i think they struggle with that idea, that theres more motivating players than pure power chasing. they dont know how to quantify it or relate to it so they dismiss it and presume its always a power play and hence destroying is fine because it just shifts the power option.

im not sure ggg fully understand the idea of fun gameplay for its own sake, divorced from the reward structure attached to it. i think they tend to see everything in mercenary terms, balance the bribes properly and nothing can go wrong.

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srogi_kotek wrote:

@Snorkle_uk
Everything works as intended. You have been replaced as part of the regular playerbase exchange. Judging by the number of supporter packs, I suppose you already have all the necessary tabs and cosmetics that you were interested in. That's why you had to be replaced with someone else who doesn't have it all and has yet to buy it. Since new players have no chance to get used to / get to know cool maps, taking them doesn't bother them. It disturbs unwanted players like you. A clever and very effective sales strategy :)

what ur saying doesnt actually make sense, there isnt limited room, theres nothing to be gained and only things to be lost by losing any player and the game being less fun doesnt only effect people who remember it when it was more fun, the chance of holding on to a new player is increased if the game is more fun. its a lose/lose situation, its not clever and its not effective because its not planned for those reasons.

if they only cared about new players they wouldnt care about meta shifts, because new players dont know the previous metas so they arnt stale to them. i think all the evidence shows they are attempting to do what they have stated which is make a game to be played forever, thats why theyre completely obsessed with meta shifts, and for the most that is what keeps the game healthy. they just get entrenched in ideas sometimes, its like morsexier used to say about issues like this... "it was decided at a ggg roundtable meeting in 2009 and they refuse to even consider reevaluating the decision ever since".

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Snorkle_uk wrote:

im not sure ggg fully understand the idea of fun gameplay for its own sake, divorced from the reward structure attached to it. i think they tend to see everything in mercenary terms, balance the bribes properly and nothing can go wrong.

I totally agree here. I wasn't defending the removal of the map, I'm just equipped with a notion to try and understand - instead of blind hate.

It all seems to be a measurement of rewards/time. If something is boring as hell (lab), either shorten it (takes less time), or up the rewards - or, of course; both, as they did with lab. Changing the boring mechanics? No. Make it more interesting? No.

While I understand that they wanted to preserve the content for the 2-3 persons that enjoy lab, the outcome became fairly... Underwhelming.

And the Gorge map? Well, it happened in a time where they were still trying to balance their game. And they probably thought that they couldn't shorten it more, or lessen the rewards (density) more without making the map to different from others. So they chose the easy way out.

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Snorkle_uk wrote:

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gibbousmoon wrote:

I've always been a fan of your insistence that full-clear necessity and linearity, when linked, equate to desirable game design, due to the non-desirability of backtracking in games of this nature (that is to say, in games which are not designed to be relaxing walking simulators).

Apparently one of the GGG mods is less of a fan. <snort> I don't think I've ever seen more "[Removed by Support]" in a single post before. Still, kudos for them just selectively censoring your post and not stealth-deleting it outright, Blizzard-style.

theyre removing the words shit and crap every time i use them apparently. i can go through the forum and probably find you 1000 instances of people calling a map, an item, a gem, a class etc shit this year that have not been edited but apparently consistency isnt a thing.

Well, don't take it personally. This is obviously a brand-new mod who hasn't yet learned the ins and outs of the Code of Conduct, which certainly does not forbid describing undesirable aspects of the game in an insulting manner.

And there is a very good reason the CoC doesn't include that: Any censorship of insults toward the game (as opposed to insults toward another player) results in an automatic PR net negative: It makes the company look really, really bad. The mod in question probably got a slap on the wrist for this reason.

Still, I think most of us agree that GGG has done a demonstrably poor job of training its new mods (I imagine the turnover is high) in consistent standards the last couple of years.

Someone once said that their lack of attention to the quality of this forum mirrors their lack of attention to the quality of the game. It's hard not to agree with that.

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if they only cared about new players they wouldnt care about meta shifts, because new players dont know the previous metas so they arnt stale to them. i think all the evidence shows they are attempting to do what they have stated which is make a game to be played forever, thats why theyre completely obsessed with meta shifts, and for the most that is what keeps the game healthy.

You're not wrong, but in an ever-evolving game in which the developers are making a good-faith (that part is important) effort to keep things at least slightly balanced, metas emerge on their own. Always.

To try and balance the game and simultaneously to deliberately introduce new metas is to serve two masters simultaneously. GGG cannot satisfy both masters. Even if they were the best developers in the world they could not.

This is an area that GGG has demonstrably and consistently failed to demonstrate an understanding of, and would probably benefit from giving a bit of thought to.

Because ggg does not care if you have fun playing PoE.

Same goes for most of their decisions where the community went "huh?".

As long as whales, people who have ggg staff in their guilds and on their speed-dials and reddit get to have the last say on anything ggg does you will see ggg in anti-fun police mode.

Plus it's on you to have fun while playing PoE. ggg does not care.