Cap reduced mana reservation at 75%
" I'm not sure this is a fair comparison, because crit multi is linear scaling at any amount and OP is making case for things which scale logarithmically as they approach that 100% asymptote. Critical strike CHANCE however, is very much comparable: the logic which states you shouldn't be able to get above a 75% reduced reservation cap (due to increasing returns) also suggests that critical strike chance should be hard-capped at 75% (due to increasing returns). And I think the answer to both questions is "no, hard caps are a lazy substitute to actual game balance." A much better way to balance this sort of reservation stacking is to make them all Less multipliers (instead of Reduced) and adjust the numbers upward accordingly. GGG would have to do some retooling of their reservation calculation system though, because the current lack of significant figures used in the calculations probably wouldn't work if all of these modifiers were multiplicative. (For people who don't know what I'm talking about: often when you get enough reservation reduction the mana discount is rounded off. This is what causes "break points" in reservation reduction stacking, where sometimes an Enlighten 3 is functionally identical to an Enlighten 4) |
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best example to illustrate runaway scaling
old Grand Spectrums 'get 50 of something per Grand Spectrum' (numbers for the sake of argument) 1 gave you 50 2 gave you 200 3 gave you 450 4 gave you 800 5 gave you 1250 linear scaling gets you just 250 from 5 and the difference grows RAPIDLY for 6, 7, 8.. each item not only granted direct bonus but also multiplied on itself. back in the day - before GGG introduced HARD CAP on these jewels - it was one of the most absurd scaling mechanic (in nowadays POE +400% elemental damage doesnt sound absurd, back in the day.. it sure was A LOT) mana reduction is one of remaining few runaway mechanics in the game. mechanics that should be removed |
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entire game?
entire game right now looks like 95% abandonware and 5% 'worth building around' if a game has even ONE runaway scaling vector it makes all linear forms of scaling OBSOLETE this right now is entire game. few stupid interactions that you HAVE TO USE to be successful otherwise you cannot complete the game because it had been balanced around said mechanics. there is no way in the current game to even near the Harold build without using it. minor case - the best way of stacking Armour (I know, useless but still) is NOT stacking armour but 'stack mana + memory vault -> reserve mana -> increased effect'. sure you can get 20 or 30K Armour with 'conventional means' but they are both costly and less efficient and the higher you go the gap widens. ergo: there is only one 'proper' way of stacking Armour (for the sake of argument, stacking it is pointless but you get it for free on Guardians so why not). in the past you could do Grace+effect + IR + EV gear (that had higher values than AR gear). so looking at entire game i can see (if you want to actually complete and compete in every content the league/game offers) that there are few 'good' options and lots and lots of useless choices noone should ever make what is easier? gutting the outliers, making content bit easier or trying to 'buff instead' resulting in a mess of game that is harder and harder to respect with each failed 'balance pass'? letting PH into the game.. it will backfire. they wont nerf it even half as much as needed. the power-hungry players cannot be annoyed after all. so the gap between 'regular' and 'viable' builds widens, game gets even more 'one build only' |
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capping would show the devs care about balance. Sometime they do that.
Releasing jewels who can stack showed they didn t care much about balance for this league. We will see which personality will take control of GGG s body, the personality who care about balance or the other one who do not care. Forum pvp Last edited by lolozori#1147 on May 6, 2020, 12:53:27 PM
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I don't know if a hard cap is the greatest solution but I also don't think that running around with 10+ auras is great for the game. Most builds balance using 2-3 auras and then consider a couple options to get in another aura or 2.
Now it does require a ton of currency but the problem is that every build doesn't have this option. I believe this is where the real issue is. |
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Auras are way too strong if you brainlessly have all of them at 200% aura effect.
Auras are weak and underwhelming if you can run one or two at ~10% aura effect. The fact the only way to get that much aura effect is tied to jewels and jewels also can have "% reduced mana reserved" is a problem. Hard cap on mana reservation would be an acceptable solution, it's just as good as any other nerf you may invent. I'd probably also change Purposeful Harbinger to something like: "10% increased Effect of Heralds on you for each Aura from your skills affecting you" Problem: impostor syndrome Solution: nerf everything Result: depressing mess Last edited by a_z0_9#4860 on May 6, 2020, 8:16:55 PM
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" I could not agree more, hard caps are dirty band-aids when GGG is not capable of balancing their game properly instead .... To be honest, we know that : - they do not want actual balance - they are not capable of balancing their game properly So, hardcap could be considered an acceptable solution at this point, let's be honest ... but ideally : no, really no. " One of the worst idea I've seen in those forums ... SSF is not and will never be a standard for balance, it is not for people entitled to getting more without trading.
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" You might be playing a different game than me. Most “broken” builds are built around crafted rares with all those new crafting recipes because a 770+ ES 48% quality chest is what became wrong with this game. That and the content difficulty being warped by that type of equipments. That is the problem, not the amount of uniques one have. But I have to agree with something, there are uniques that got out of hand and GGG nerfs things and introduces others that are a lot worst. |
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Well a more elegant way to balance More and Less multipliers would be simple making ALL OF THEM double edge swords.
PoE already has plenty of examples of it in game: Brutality (more damage but can`t deal ele) Concentrated effect (more damage but less AoE) GMP (Less damage but More projectiles) ==> here there is the "problem" of shotgun skills that makes a LESS turn into MORE, but that`s another story. Kaom Heart (lots of life but no sockets) Bringer of rain (lots of stats but can`t use armor) The grey spire (lots of stats no sockets) Glancing blows timeless jewel (doubles block but 50% less damage blocked) ETC Just add that rule to everything that has exponential results and you have a type of balance that doesn`t require having to actually add limits. Also putting numbers in the ground again, unless people like to see big numbers flying d3 style (which poe doesn`t even have yet). In the particular of Purposeful Harbinger it would go something in the lines: 10% incresead aura effect for each herald and 2% increased mana reservation per herald. Last edited by Mortyx#1049 on May 7, 2020, 10:20:59 AM
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" That's not diversity, that will only be builds looking like eachother more because there will be less niche options, that's the opposite of more diversity : it's less diversity. if GGG can't balance their items, they need to do some cleanup in their balance team. Item quantity is a whole different problem. " . most threshold jewel are HORSESHIT design from the start, they have always been. - some of them do not allow duplicates, or a limited amount, because jewels are particular unique items that are in a completely different category. => irrelevant. " One of the things yeah, and speaking about HH / the saviour would be stupid as those are items irrelevant for a drastic part of the population anyway. ( it's relevant when it starts feeling required for some content like legion, but that is a different subject all together). " Most things used to have drawbacks in PoE. Which made balancing interesting. And then stupid **** balancing started being more and more present, with simple, pure power creep because of the inability of GGG to keep the game interesting without it. SSF is not and will never be a standard for balance, it is not for people entitled to getting more without trading. Last edited by Fruz#6137 on May 10, 2020, 9:36:16 PM
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