Understanding the RNG from a mathematical perspective

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andybmcc wrote:
You have to take into account the algorithm that generates the "random" numbers. It's not really random, per se. Most often, random number generators are seeded with a value ( usually time, but could be something like an analog to digital conversion of signal noise, or something else ). You aren't going to have a perfectly uniform distribution. If I use, for example, C++ and feed the STL rand() function with the same seed, I'll end up with the same sequence of "random" numbers.


While this is true in theory, in practice the algorithms used can be so close to random that any differences from true randomness are essentially irrelevant.

Look up the Mersenne twister algorithm for example.

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andybmcc wrote:
Philosophical question ( read: derailment ): Is there anything that is truly "random"?


Nothing is random insofar as the principles that govern the world and the game mechanics of any virtual game can go. It's random to those who are governed by the laws of numbers, but the numbers in themselves are not random.
With all intelligence, insanity becomes the backdrop of the good man, and will sooner become what usurps the good man.

If you tell a truth that people don't want to hear, the truth will imprison you.

What's the point of knowing the world, if the world never talks back and others don't listen?
Last edited by IExiledOtherExilesToBeTheExile#6523 on Mar 19, 2013, 3:22:37 PM
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IExiledOtherExilesToBeTheExile wrote:
That is still RNG. Don't try to change the subject. There is a huge difference between working with numbers you can't see, and numbers you can see [money in your hands upon buying the house.]


No, that's exactly the point they were trying to make. They were saying that some people prefer a system where RNG is involved, and on average it might cost, say, 500 fusing orbs to get a 6L, but an individual person might get one in 100 orbs or 2000, whereas other people prefer a system where no RNG is involved, and you simply pay a set amount and obtain the 6L for certain.

With the latter system it can be guaranteed that you will get the 6L, whereas with the former you may never get it -- at least, not before you quit.
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andybmcc wrote:
Philosophical question ( read: derailment ): Is there anything that is truly "random"?


Its not as philosophical as you may think as there is an answer to this question. I'd invite you to read up on "true random" I find it to be a very interesting topic.
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realatomicpanda wrote:
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IExiledOtherExilesToBeTheExile wrote:
That is still RNG. Don't try to change the subject. There is a huge difference between working with numbers you can't see, and numbers you can see [money in your hands upon buying the house.]


No, that's exactly the point they were trying to make. They were saying that some people prefer a system where RNG is involved, and on average it might cost, say, 500 fusing orbs to get a 6L, but an individual person might get one in 100 orbs or 2000, whereas other people prefer a system where no RNG is involved, and you simply pay a set amount and obtain the 6L for certain.

With the latter system it can be guaranteed that you will get the 6L, whereas with the former you may never get it -- at least, not before you quit.


If i'm following what he was saying correctly, the fusings were still obtained through randomness.
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habbey wrote:
If i'm following what he was saying correctly, the fusings were still obtained through randomness.


Well, yes, that goes without saying. The randomness of drops is a given, and no one is really proposing an alternative to that. They were talking about the process of fusing and a random fusing system versus the alternative.

Once you have the fusings in your hand, with the latter system, RNG stops playing a part. And most people who set about to create a 6L already have the fusings in their hand (or at least some of them). No one says "I'm going to create a 6L" and then begins to farm up 500-700 fusing orbs.
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habbey wrote:
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andybmcc wrote:
Philosophical question ( read: derailment ): Is there anything that is truly "random"?


Its not as philosophical as you may think as there is an answer to this question. I'd invite you to read up on "true random" I find it to be a very interesting topic.


All I'm seeing when I google "true random" are RNGs based on atmospheric noise which isn't "random", it's just more difficult to quantify and predict.

EDIT: Random != Difficult to predict
Last edited by andybmcc#3970 on Mar 19, 2013, 3:52:53 PM
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realatomicpanda wrote:


No, that's exactly the point they were trying to make. They were saying that some people prefer a system where RNG is involved, and on average it might cost, say, 500 fusing orbs to get a 6L, but an individual person might get one in 100 orbs or 2000, whereas other people prefer a system where no RNG is involved, and you simply pay a set amount and obtain the 6L for certain.

With the latter system it can be guaranteed that you will get the 6L, whereas with the former you may never get it -- at least, not before you quit.


The response I responded to with "No. It. Is. Not.", I don't recall you ever mentioning the idea of 'no RNG'. Where did you mention the accumulation concept?
With all intelligence, insanity becomes the backdrop of the good man, and will sooner become what usurps the good man.

If you tell a truth that people don't want to hear, the truth will imprison you.

What's the point of knowing the world, if the world never talks back and others don't listen?
"
andybmcc wrote:


All I'm seeing when I google "true random" are RNGs based on atmospheric noise which isn't "random", it's just more difficult to quantify and predict.

EDIT: Random != Difficult to predict


Same things goes for anything that is magic. Can't explain it? Magic.
With all intelligence, insanity becomes the backdrop of the good man, and will sooner become what usurps the good man.

If you tell a truth that people don't want to hear, the truth will imprison you.

What's the point of knowing the world, if the world never talks back and others don't listen?
"
IExiledOtherExilesToBeTheExile wrote:
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andybmcc wrote:


All I'm seeing when I google "true random" are RNGs based on atmospheric noise which isn't "random", it's just more difficult to quantify and predict.

EDIT: Random != Difficult to predict


Same things goes for anything that is magic. Can't explain it? Magic.


Magnets, how do they work?

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