RIP defensive curses

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RPGlitch wrote:

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OldManGrinding wrote:

Wonder when the oneshot stuff will 'end'. It is bad design. Period. Even if curses need to be nerfed or not.

GGG already tried to make it extremely risky, to have no defense, yet people still plow through with less than 4k HP on hard ass mods. At this point, I'm not really sure it's entirely GGGs fault that a substantial portion of its playerbase likes to play it edgy.

Just the nature of people to skip steps if they feel they can get away with it.

That's the thing though. The people playing enfeeble + temp chains auras are explicitly *not* the "live life on the edge of softcore with 4k hp" types, they're extremely deliberative types willing to give up offensive auras for safety. And GGG is saying "hahah fuck that".

I feel legitimately bad for those people. GGG made offensive curses better against bosses while nerfing defensive curses, which is just another "fuck you all, clearspeed meta wins" statement.

I actually like playing the clearspeed meta (I was and still am planning to start league with a ts deadeye, which as predicted was completely unaffected by this patch), but I also like for there to be build diversity and GGG are directly hurting that.


Edit: re: betrayal NPCs, I acknowledged long ago that they were absolute bullshit oneshot factories pre-nerf, but "git gud" absolutely applies to the post-nerf syndicate. When almost everything (one archer is still a bit invisible) is adequately telegraphed and things "only" deal 5k damage instead of 8k in one hit at level 83, good play can keep you far safer.

they were overpowered for a single defensive mechanic. are people actually trying to pretend otherwise now?

that amount of nerf is actually pretty slim. they'll still be the go-to for anyone to instantly get a fuck ton of defense value for basically nothing.

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xMustard wrote:

they were overpowered for a single defensive mechanic. are people actually trying to pretend otherwise now?

that amount of nerf is actually pretty slim. they'll still be the go-to for anyone to instantly get a fuck ton of defense value for basically nothing.

They were overpowered for the single defensive mechanic of "delving deep against normal and magic enemies". Not against unique monsters. They haven't been broken against unique monsters since the original curse nerf that gave bosses "less curse effect" instead of "reduced curse effect".


And even now, these curses haven't been nerfed for normal and magic mobs. Admittedly, the nerf against rare mobs maybe does something useful against their brokenness while delving, but that's all.

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OldManGrinding wrote:

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RPGlitch wrote:

GGG already tried to make it extremely risky, to have no defense, yet people still plow through with less than 4k HP on hard ass mods. At this point, I'm not really sure it's entirely GGGs fault that a substantial portion of its playerbase likes to play it edgy.

Just the nature of people to skip steps if they feel they can get away with it.

Yeah I get that and not whom I speak. I dont have those numbers either. Who is a glass cannon and complains about being oneshot is not the subset I care to defend. But not all were in this class and I remember reading 7k+ health pools being oneshot in some of the betrayal npc threads.

Sorry to not clarify that.

I'm willing to bet most of the 7k+ HP one-shots were either before the Syndicate Nerfs (Which made many syndicate encounters a joke for a lot of the hardcore PoE players, people like the Streamers), or were builds that weren't focused on defenses at all.

In PoE your defense is not just your life pool, it's your other layers. Armor, Fortify, Curses, Block, Dodge, Evasion, Charges, Leech, and many many other sources are all part of your defense. And unless you stack a few of those (Like Evasion+Dodge+Fortify+Enfeeble for instance) you are going to be one shot a few times during rippy maps.

That and some people don't realize just how rippy certain map mods can be at higher tiers.

I say this from experience, being someone who barely ever died to Syndicate. Most of my deaths from were from leveling, not managing by buffs/flasks well, not checking map mods (aka ele-reflect deaths), or pushing WAY past what my character could reasonably run.

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OldManGrinding wrote:

But if anyone who said gitgud is upset with these curse nerfs, it is sort of funny to me.

Because GGG is nerfing defensive means available while buffing speed meta? Where's your logic?

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Thornwalker69 wrote:

I guess they want people to die more, lose more xp.

back to twilight strand actually

:D

:s

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xMustard wrote:

they were overpowered for a single defensive mechanic. are people actually trying to pretend otherwise now?

that amount of nerf is actually pretty slim. they'll still be the go-to for anyone to instantly get a fuck ton of defense value for basically nothing.

^^ was a valid post a year or two ago prior to bosses getting 60/80% less curse effect.

That was balanced and everyone was agreeable that enfeeble/temp chains on bosses were nerfed to the point they were barely effective, but not completely useless (except for elder/shaper). Then they were further nerfed with heavy reductions to AoE.

Then today came along.

temp chains effectiveness in general map areas has been almost halved.
It's overall effectiveness vs regular bosses has been further nerfed by about 33%.
It's overall effectiveness vs shaper/elder has actually increased a bit, but is still essentially useless.
(thats temp chains, enfeeble was hit about 50% harder making it absolutely useless)

This is on builds that specialize in curses. There's no more 'just add more effectiveness' to be done.

Not really sure what to make of this. Trash mobs are such an insignificant threat that neither of these curses are needed on any build. Bosses still largely ignore them. why not just remove them? The only time temp chains is actually useful for a purpose is when its used against the player.

GGG keep saying the clearspeed meta is a difficult problem that can't really be solved (as players would protest/quit) but then they do stuff like this that just shoves players in that direction.

Here's a legitimate question for GGG:

Why even have boss curse reductions if your going to put penalties on the gems themselves?

It communicates to new players that the values on the gems are the actual penalties when they are still only going to do 1/3 of their listed value.

i don't give a fuck about the curse effect....enfeeble, for one key press, was still an enormous defense boost against all bosses then and still after this very minimal nerf.

i do agree that curses are still fucked, that they're most useful vs trash (where you don't need them) and least useful vs bosses (where you need em most). but it doesn't seem like they're going to change curses much any time soon

Basically:

Players want to avoid being OHKO
GGG want players to be OHKO.

Players will seek, stack and build defences to avoid being OHKO.
GGG will nerf, balance, and reduce defences to ensure being OHKO

It's a vicious cycle.

GGG are balancing around OHKO since anything less than that is marginalized by the insane recovery available in the game. anything short of OHKO is largely ignored by meta builds. God help anyone not playing a meta build who wants to do end game content.

@Topic curses.

What would be so hard about giving curses actual fixed stats, remove boss penalties and just have them apply across the board? Yes, that means regular trash gets the same reduced curse effect as bosses. who cares, its trash mobs.

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xMustard wrote:

i don't give a fuck about the curse effect....enfeeble, for one key press, was still an enormous defense boost against all bosses then and still after this very minimal nerf.

i do agree that curses are still fucked, that they're most useful vs trash (where you don't need them) and least useful vs bosses (where you need em most). but it doesn't seem like they're going to change curses much any time soon

Enfeeble gave 0.4 * 30% = 12% less damage vs normal boss and 6% vs shaper/elder (0.2 * 30) before. You call it huge defense?
What about fortify giving 20% for one hit no matter what?

On the other hand why bother with defense if you can one shot the boss.
Offensive abilities are far superior to defensive ones and that´s not a good thing for diversity in the game.
Why not having more defensive skills (I mean active skills not cwdt bs) and abilities in game?
We have tons of damage supports instead etc.