[3.7] Agony Deliverance Tank. Bosses evaporated by scorpion friend

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t0lkien wrote:

Yeah Molten Shell definitely doesn't work with Gluttony. I've swapped it out for Steelskin - strange that PoB is showing it still with MS. I'll update the link when I'm at home.

Re. "Is the Enemy Shocked?" (if that's what you're talking about) I don't know if PoB accurately calculates the average chance of shocking when you enable Shaper as a target. I've read discussions on it, people just seem to be guessing. Shocking Shaper requires a single hit for 36,000 hp, which the Crawler is obviously capable of, though.

Re. Conductivity already calculating being shocked in PoB, I don't think that's right. You can see that by un-enabling the Conductivity skill - the DPS isn't affected at all. You still have to tick the "Is the Enemy Shocked" box in Configuration. Being hit by Fire is attached to the effect of EE.

I can only tell you that even at my 2.8 million DPS version (I haven't gotten Aul's yet), it makes quick work of both Shaper and Red Elder. The 5.5 million will just be gravy, and the 10 million version will be for my own satisfaction.


Shock is very tricky for people to calculate and it doesn't help that Pob has a binary shock or no shock button when it should be an input box with all the options.

You don't have a resistance lowering helm and have double applied the resistance lowering from EE so I've fixed that. If you are looking at shock against shaper then the frenzy charges from the curse will have worn off during the long time he talks and you don't have single target charge generation so I've removed those too.

Un-enabling your conductivity was not changing the DPS results because you had a second conductivity/curse on hit setup activated and socketed into the bow so you would need to remove both to actually remove the curse. This was also giving the curse a higher level then the one you are actually using.

This now results in 2.4 Mil DPS which is very respectable and around what you get with a +3 DPS bow rather Quills attack speed. In general anything over 2 Mil DPS and the difference becomes imperceivably different, things like minion AI and minion movespeed start becoming far more a factor then DPS

Your chance to shock is flat from conductivity 14% lowered by shapers curse resistance down to 5% and the base 5% crit chance for 10% shock chance. At 2.4 attacks per second it will take on average 4 seconds to hit a shock but your shocks only last 2 seconds so even after hitting one it'll only be active half the time

The lightning portion of your tail spike (before shock) does 420,000 - 750,000 dmg. 40,000 lightning hit is the minimum shock requirement on shaper to give a 1% more damage shock so your crawler will be producing shocks of between 10% - 19% More damage.

To represent this you need to add a line onto a flask or something as the 'shock' button unhelpfully just gives you more non representative damage. Its probably mostly there to activate 'when shocked' conditions on other items which is understandable since shocks can be strong or weak with huge ranges depending on specific target, the roll of the damage, the chance to shock and thats not even including shock effect rounding that proper shock builds get

Your shocks against targets with less HP with be much higher, and there are other temp bonuses like Cinderswallow Urn that can be used to up it by a few %more. Inherently as a mechanic shocks are unreliable to measure as we want to invision our best case scenarios as the more common ones. Its similar to how we make our pastebins with 40 Virilence charges even though they tend to fluctuate between 30-40 depending on what you're actually doing, but with a wider range
Last edited by WaffleT on Jul 26, 2019, 4:27:57 AM
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t0lkien wrote:
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alexandro_108 wrote:

As far as i know molten shell didnt work with gluttony, and enemies resist options already count when u choose hit by fire damage and enable conductivity curse, so it's 4.1 mil shaper dps if 14% this curse enough to constantly shock enemies...


Yeah Molten Shell definitely doesn't work with Gluttony. I've swapped it out for Steelskin - strange that PoB is showing it still with MS. I'll update the link when I'm at home.

Re. "Is the Enemy Shocked?" (if that's what you're talking about) I don't know if PoB accurately calculates the average chance of shocking when you enable Shaper as a target. I've read discussions on it, people just seem to be guessing. Shocking Shaper requires a single hit for 36,000 hp, which the Crawler is obviously capable of, though.

Re. Conductivity already calculating being shocked in PoB, I don't think that's right. You can see that by un-enabling the Conductivity skill - the DPS isn't affected at all. You still have to tick the "Is the Enemy Shocked" box in Configuration.

I can only tell you that even at my 2.8 million DPS version (I haven't gotten Aul's yet), it makes quick work of both Shaper and Red Elder (who dropped a double Precision Watcher's Eye for me yesterday - the only one on the server). The 5.5 million version will just be gravy, and the 10 million version will be for my own satisfaction.


Of course unaffected conductivity because u have 2 same body set up and gloves in pob, disable duplicates and u see its all counts) About shock i meant 14% chance to apply shock is enough?(maybe even 80% less of it in shaper case) I think need some stuff to increase shock chance.
Last edited by alexandro_108 on Jul 26, 2019, 4:13:05 AM
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alexandro_108 wrote:

Of course unaffected conductivity because u have 2 same body set up and gloves in pob, disable duplicates and u see its all counts) About shock i meant 14% chance to apply shock is enough?(maybe even 80% less of it in shaper case) I think need some stuff to increase shock chance.


Yes you are right, sorry about that! My PoB here at work is a mess. I just reimported into a clean build and all the duplicates are gone.

Waffle - I will take your word for the lighting and shock calculations. I don't know enough about the idiosyncrasies of the mechanics or PoB. I don't see where the EE resistance lowering was double applied though, unless ticking "Enemy was Hit by Fire Damage" automatically calculates that - which upon some thought seems obvious.

I *think* the 40k hit on Shaper is now 36k though, as the PoE Wiki says the Shaper's hitpoints were dropped down to 18 million in patch 3.5.0
Last edited by t0lkien on Jul 26, 2019, 4:56:44 AM
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t0lkien wrote:


Yes you are right, sorry about that! My PoB here at work is a mess. I just reimported into a clean build and all the duplicates are gone.

Waffle - I will take your word for the lighting and shock calculations. I don't know enough about the idiosyncrasies of the mechanics or PoB. I don't see where the EE resistance lowering was double applied though, unless ticking "Enemy was Hit by Fire Damage" automatically calculates that - which upon some thought seems obvious.

I *think* the 40k hit on Shaper is now 36k though, as the PoE Wiki says the Shaper's hitpoints were dropped down to 18 million in patch 3.5.0


Yep ticking "enemy was hit by fire damage" applies EE. You can see it working because if you unallocate EE your DPS drops which shows its being applied

Also Yep 36,657 is the more accurate number however we generally round that up to 40,000 as shock is about variables & you're already doing a few generous assumptions when calculating it. Also it makes math cleaner and the number is easier to remember. Using the proper number only adds 1% more damage onto the shocks anyway so negligible
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t0lkien wrote:
I'm in Standard. I much prefer having a character I don't have to abandon after 3 months - though I play league whenever I start a new character. I've been loving this build so much I don't play anything else right now.

This is my 5.5 million setup. There are a couple of required items to make it work, the neck particularly. You of course need the "-to total mana cost of skills" on your ring/rings. Also the helm enchant is pretty much a necessity for map clearing.

This is a 3 curse version, and I *may* push it to a fourth just for the memes:

https://pastebin.com/TxFQe7Q9


Nice.
As much as I would like to try it out, I don't think I will ever afford the 35 ex amulet (standard price). The price is 13-20 ex in Leauge but still. It's a huge investment to be able to run this build.

Is the difference in damage and clear that much of a difference? I have all the other items ready, and just playing along and try to gather enough ex to just try it out for fun.

Either way: For league starters, I would choose Waffle's build, minus the minion's speed :) It's so cheap, smooth safe and fun. But good job to all of the people who has been able to push this further and create new and fun ways to play this build.

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LesserForms wrote:

Nice.
As much as I would like to try it out, I don't think I will ever afford the 35 ex amulet (standard price). The price is 13-20 ex in Leauge but still. It's a huge investment to be able to run this build.

Is the difference in damage and clear that much of a difference? I have all the other items ready, and just playing along and try to gather enough ex to just try it out for fun.

Either way: For league starters, I would choose Waffle's build, minus the minion's speed :) It's so cheap, smooth safe and fun. But good job to all of the people who has been able to push this further and create new and fun ways to play this build.



Yeah Waffle's version is the way to go at first, and perhaps forever. Due to the way the game and loot goes though I had to adjust things to suit my gear, and then just kept on adjusting. The great thing is if you want to push it and min/max it further, you can.

The build just deletes bosses and with some work and investment can be made very tanky and with good survivability (mostly through high HP due to the number of socket jewels you will use, but also by layering on things like poison immunity, Corrupted Blood immunity, high evasion etc.) Because it can handle all the content with relative ease, you will eventually be able to afford what you need to improve things where you need to. So it's really a win/win. For example, I have been farming Red Elder and it recently dropped a double Precision Watcher's Eye I sold for 70ex. No way could I have done that with my previous build.

I really like the once removed, insulated nature of the build too. It allows you to ignore a lot of the game's big killers (reflection for instance). it's so cool the game is capable of this kind of stuff. You're essentially an aurabot for your Crawler. Everything you do in the build is to buff it. It took me a while to get that, and not mistakenly try to do things that buffed me for no purpose. On that note, Convocation is also pretty much requisite to get around any inadequacies in the AI. The more efficiently your Crawler gets into position, the better everything is for you.

The only thing I would say regarding clear speed and play-ability is you really should get the helm enchant that gives your Crawler extra projectiles. It's a huge boost to the build's power and ability to run maps. The extra damage from my versions over Waffle's is really just QoL and fun (for me anyway - as Waffle has said, once you get past 2 million it becomes academic, though I want the ability to phase Uber Elder/Shaper faster).

This build pretty much saved PoE for me as I was so frustrated with one shots and bosses, and my inability to find consistent solutions for them I probably would have quit. Kudos and thanks to Waffle.

P.S. Updated version of my 2 million+ PoB now (with most of Waffle's corrections). I will submit the 4.1 million+ version (not 5 million as previously said) when I've white socketed my new bow - soon!

P.P.S I've uncovered a very strange bug with this build where you will stop applying damage to mobs, and so Virulence stacks, and things suddenly become unkillable. It happens for me with Mastermind, and just recently on some pack mobs. I had to zone back to my Hideout and then back in to reset it, though it was still strangely difficult to kill them. Has anyone else experienced this?
Last edited by t0lkien on Jul 31, 2019, 4:45:28 AM
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t0lkien wrote:
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LesserForms wrote:

Nice.
As much as I would like to try it out, I don't think I will ever afford the 35 ex amulet (standard price). The price is 13-20 ex in Leauge but still. It's a huge investment to be able to run this build.

Is the difference in damage and clear that much of a difference? I have all the other items ready, and just playing along and try to gather enough ex to just try it out for fun.

Either way: For league starters, I would choose Waffle's build, minus the minion's speed :) It's so cheap, smooth safe and fun. But good job to all of the people who has been able to push this further and create new and fun ways to play this build.



Yeah Waffle's version is the way to go at first, and perhaps forever. Due to the way the game and loot goes though I had to adjust things to suit my gear, and then just kept on adjusting. The great thing is if you want to push it and min/max it further, you can.

The build just deletes bosses and with some work and investment can be made very tanky and with good survivability (mostly through high HP due to the number of socket jewels you will use, but also by layering on things like poison immunity, Corrupted Blood immunity, high evasion etc.) Because it can handle all the content with relative ease, you will eventually be able to afford what you need to improve things where you need to. So it's really a win/win. For example, I have been farming Red Elder and it recently dropped a double Precision Watcher's Eye I sold for 70ex. No way could I have done that with my previous build.

I really like the once removed, insulated nature of the build too. It allows you to ignore a lot of the game's big killers (reflection for instance). it's so cool the game is capable of this kind of stuff. You're essentially an aurabot for your Crawler. Everything you do in the build is to buff it. It took me a while to get that, and not mistakenly try to do things that buffed me for no purpose. On that note, Convocation is also pretty much requisite to get around any inadequacies in the AI. The more efficiently your Crawler gets into position, the better everything is for you.

The only thing I would say regarding clear speed and play-ability is you really should get the helm enchant that gives your Crawler extra projectiles. It's a huge boost to the build's power and ability to run maps. The extra damage from my versions over Waffle's is really just QoL and fun (for me anyway - as Waffle has said, once you get past 2 million it becomes academic, though I want the ability to phase Uber Elder/Shaper faster).

This build pretty much saved PoE for me as I was so frustrated with one shots and bosses, and my inability to find consistent solutions for them I probably would have quit. Kudos and thanks to Waffle.

P.S. Updated version of my 2 million+ PoB now (with most of Waffle's corrections). I will submit the 4.1 million+ version (not 5 million as previously said) when I've white socketed my new bow - soon!

P.P.S I've uncovered a very strange bug with this build where you will stop applying damage to mobs, and so Virulence stacks, and things suddenly become unkillable. It happens for me with Mastermind, and just recently on some pack mobs. I had to zone back to my Hideout and then back in to reset it, though it was still strangely difficult to kill them. Has anyone else experienced this?


I've encountered the same problem with Mastermind. Although I think it's just due to the fight mechanics. She became able to attack again at later stage after I just ran around for some time. Dunno if it's a bug :)

Also, I agree that it is fun to max out. That's also why i wanted to try your version of the build. I have everything in place. Just need the amulet. I usually only die once when doing uber elder, red elder is a piece of cake. So. Farming end game is easy with this build. I just haven't landed the right loot to give me that much ex.

Anyways, Thanks to Waffle and all the build-builders out there.
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LesserForms wrote:
I've encountered the same problem with Mastermind. Although I think it's just due to the fight mechanics. She became able to attack again at later stage after I just ran around for some time. Dunno if it's a bug :)


I would agree (and I hope you're right), but I actually brought someone else in to double check this exact possibility, and although he was playing a melee build he had the same problem. We eventually managed to phase her, but not before a few minutes of futile immunity. It was so bad he was filling chat with "??????", and said he had never seen it before.

So something is definitely going on. It feels like some convolution of mechanics we're using triggers a very specific bug condition.

TL;DR it's definitely not the fight's mechanics, it's something else (and me experiencing it on pack mobs seems to confirm this).
Last edited by t0lkien on Jul 31, 2019, 6:12:42 AM
hi i just wanna ask which curse should i use conductivity or elemental weakness for my third curse setup? thanks for this build.
Check out my 600+ delve version - 9k+ hp, ~3 mil shaper dps, 3 curse, aspect of spider

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