AoE vs Projectile

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Fruz wrote:

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MortalKombat3 wrote:

why would anyone invest into AoE increases on items/gem, if numbers on them are so low?

Players that know well enough how to build a character will invest when they deem it necessary ( and in many cases, they do ).

Show me a build using AoE skills, that will use "Increased AoE" gem instead of yet another "MOAR DAMAGE" gem. Sure, you can play using sub-par gem, but that's just intentionally handicapping yourself. You can also play with only 4-link, or without using jewels, or not using any books you get from quests, etc.

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Fruz wrote:

We went from "everybody feels the need to invest in it otherwise it's not optimized" to "inc AOE might or might not be worth investing into depending on the setup".

Nope, we went to "Inc AoE is NOT worth investing, regardless of setup".

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Fruz wrote:

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sofocle10000 wrote:

Besides, that should have been the way projectiles worked from the start. Or have a severe accuracy reduction every xx radius, so they couldn't have damaged what they couldn't hit...

Hello RT.

It will be a nice buff to shitty keystone no one uses!

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Johny_Snow wrote:

Isn't concentrated effect like one of the best DPS increase support gems in the game?

BTW, the change to AoE formula had REVERSE effect on "concentrated effect" gem - its drawback was severely reduced. That's why it's considered so good ATM. In past, it was often an option - get huge damage boost at the cost of AoE decrease, or not.

There is a damage cap you know. If you are already killing everything beside bosses in less than a second it pays to increase your area of effect and kill even more monsters in less than a second. Increased area of effect gem is more of a luxury for people already geared well enough to not care about trash in maps. Then for the boss you swap to concentrated effect and melt him in a similar fashion.

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MortalKombat3 wrote:

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Fruz wrote:

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MortalKombat3 wrote:

why would anyone invest into AoE increases on items/gem, if numbers on them are so low?

Players that know well enough how to build a character will invest when they deem it necessary ( and in many cases, they do ).

Show me a build using AoE skills, that will use "Increased AoE" gem instead of yet another "MOAR DAMAGE" gem. Sure, you can play using sub-par gem, but that's just intentionally handicapping yourself. You can also play with only 4-link, or without using jewels, or not using any books you get from quests, etc.

Plenty of builds use inc AOE and swap to conc effect for bosses.

My Vaal Ice Nova is much better with inc AOE, and it has only 2 damage supports.


You don't understand how builds do benefit from it, fine.
But it's a problem with your understand, not with the game balance ( not implying that the game balance is perfect of course ).

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MortalKombat3 wrote:

It will be a nice buff to shitty keystone no one uses!

Or to corrupted implicit that allow players to never miss .... and and it really does not need a buff.

Oh, and 9% of the builds in Delve use resolute technique.
https://poe.ninja/challenge/builds?keystone=Resolute-Technique

You really should check such things twice before throwing such baseless statements.
( 14% of the HC players in Delve use it too, according to poe ninja ).

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MortalKombat3 wrote:

BTW, the change to AoE formula had REVERSE effect on "concentrated effect" gem - its drawback was severely reduced. That's why it's considered so good ATM. In past, it was often an option - get huge damage boost at the cost of AoE decrease, or not.

no .... Conc effect has always been a strong and often used keystone :/.
But I guess that statement was also baseless, like the rest, so ...

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Johny_Snow wrote:

There is a damage cap you know. If you are already killing everything beside bosses in less than a second it pays to increase your area of effect and kill even more monsters in less than a second. Increased area of effect gem is more of a luxury for people already geared well enough to not care about trash in maps. Then for the boss you swap to concentrated effect and melt him in a similar fashion.

Yep, PoE AOE 101 sorta lol.

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Fruz wrote:

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sofocle10000 wrote:

Besides, that should have been the way projectiles worked from the start. Or have a severe accuracy reduction every xx radius, so they couldn't have damaged what they couldn't hit...

Hello RT.

Deadeyes would love traveling there.

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Fruz wrote:

Spoiler

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sofocle10000 wrote:

Besides, that should have been the way projectiles worked from the start. Or have a severe accuracy reduction every xx radius, so they couldn't have damaged what they couldn't hit...

Hello RT.

But then you couldn't scale damage to absurd levels via Crit.

Hello "balance".

PS: They would still need to add a damage "limiter" to Lioneye's Glare, and have "Far Shot" on items double the effect of the keystone/ascendancy perk...

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sofocle10000 wrote:

But then you couldn't scale damage to absurd levels via Crit.

Hello "balance".

PS: They would still need to add a damage "limiter" to Lioneye's Glare, and have "Far Shot" on items double the effect of the keystone/ascendancy perk...

So what ?
You are aware that this is the current drawback I believe, it's not very relevant.


And you would want to make sure that nobody uses LG anymore ? Oo

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Fruz wrote:

Spoiler

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sofocle10000 wrote:

But then you couldn't scale damage to absurd levels via Crit.

Hello "balance".

PS: They would still need to add a damage "limiter" to Lioneye's Glare, and have "Far Shot" on items double the effect of the keystone/ascendancy perk...

So what ?
You are aware that this is the current drawback I believe, it's not very relevant.


And you would want to make sure that nobody uses LG anymore ? Oo

So if TencentGGG wants AoE to better contend with projectiles, addressing offscreening is the way to go, and should have been from the start.

The current "drawback" in a time when everyon scales damage to absurd levels should be transformed in a choice, as PoE had "choices" as a main zelling point when it was an ARPG. Want to obliterate everything? - you can do it as long as you have it in your visual range. Want to clear outside said range? - you deal with exponentially less damage.

The funny thing is that I could bet TencentGGG will do exactly that, as then, "balance" gets a whole lot easier...

Having a nice target damage to be outputed by LG with a double effect for Far Shot would still make it useful, but not BiS "no matter what" (and I do feel that having both Far Shot and Hits can't be evaded would prove a bit too much, of course they could simply swap RT for the Hits can't be evaded, but that is their decision)...

I was only pointing out the fact that no being able to crit is already a RT drawback, that would have nothing to do with your suggestion, nothing more.
The current drawback DOES make it a choice ...

I don't know why you're going on with your story when most of it is not related to what I was saying.


Realistically, you can't just make projectile drastically loose accuracy the farther they travel because of RT, and "hits can't be evaded".
Realistically, you can't just make projectile deal drastically less damage the farther they travel because of far shot.


PS : wtf "when it was an arpg" ? Obviously it still is an arpg, is that just another way to spread your salt or something ?

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Fruz wrote:

Spoiler

I was only pointing out the fact that no being able to crit is already a RT drawback, that would have nothing to do with your suggestion, nothing more.
The current drawback DOES make it a choice ...

I don't know why you're going on with your story when most of it is not related to what I was saying.


Realistically, you can't just make projectile drastically loose accuracy the farther they travel because of RT, and "hits can't be evaded".
Realistically, you can't just make projectile deal drastically less damage the farther they travel because of far shot.


PS : wtf "when it was an arpg" ? Obviously it still is an arpg, is that just another way to spread your salt or something ?

Stop it with the "spreading salt" @#$$%&*|. Thanks.

Some of us do prefer to be critical and offer feedback and suggestions on this area of the forum. And PoE lacks more and more qualities that make a game ARPG, no matter the blaming aspects, they are transforming the game into less than a H&S, and getting it to a "Clicker Heroes" level... They needed to get things under control a long time ago. Unfortunately, they prefer "power creep" to run rampant...

Applying a drawback regarding damage to projectiles that move offscreen should be a lot better than simply making all of them deal no damage whatsoever - see the new Delve invisibility mechanic forced upon players, just like Abyss or Breach - and simply applying the Point Blank mechanic as a general basis, with various reworks to ensure that method stays in place and provides an easier way for TencentGGG to "balance" the game, will be implemented if Chris stays true to his word.

RT and/or Far Shot don't need to be exclusive with Point Blank implemented as core mechanic. RT with the Crit possibility aka "Hits can't be evaded" simply needs to become your regular RT (it was an asinine decision to have Crit with maximum chance to hit available so easy, without a severe "xx% Less Damage" multiplier applied), and Far Shot shouldn't become the way to BYPASS the Point Blank core mechanic ENTIRELY.

Realistically, they can and should make projectiles lose damage and/or accuracy the further they travel without "loopholes" and without rendering RT/Far Shot null. And the worst thing is that they should have did that from the start - I know, I know, the "technology wasn't there yet", but I bet that it is today, so they have no more excuses - so I'm looking forward to the projectile offscreen rework, as that should be a success as the AoE rework already is.

PS: If the offscreen rework regarding projectiles would require "gutting" the Far Shot keystone, I'm all in, as Vaal Pact was already "nerfed" for "the greater good" so TencentGGG are quite capable of making even such a hard choice...

lolz

i'm using RT and AoE. i guess i should be complaining up a storm about how unpossible poe is.