Why does trade suck so hard?

All the difficulty with trading is deliberately done by GGG. Back in January in the Ziz podcast Interview with Chris Wilson Chris stated this:


Path of Exile - Chris Wilson answers questions about PoE with Zizaran

 Ziz: The only other thing people are curious about is, are there any trade changes coming soon?

 Chris: Nothing really worth talking about at the moment. I mean, it's an ongoing discussion, but -- Honestly, the changes to being able to filter AFK people out, and DND people not appear on the list has substantially improved trade as far as we're concerned.
You've seen the manifesto where we've ranted about how we don't want trade to be too easy, and we're not backing down on that at the moment. But the changes we've been making have helped, especially with the item sniping thing where there's a delay on the API so that dedicated personal sniping tools don't work quite as effectively as before. This kind of stuff is helping the trade ecosystem. We think it's in a relatively good place right now, for what it is, considering a lot of people probably hate me saying that, we're still pretty happy with the improvements we've made, and we'll keep an eye out for similar types of improvements that we can make that have a similar type of impact without being an auction house.


The last phrase "without being an auction house" is the same position he and GGG has had from the beginning of PoE. So based on Chris' reaffirming that he is against an auction house we have to stop QQing that PoE needs an AH and start talking about ways to improve the current trade system (as I have done in a previous post here). Please stop the bs about "never say never" on an auction house. We're as likely to ever get one here as we would ever see a "mad cow level" or a "Whimseyshire zone". It's not going to ever happen unless Tencent puts the proverbial gun to Chris' head and forces GGG to do it so get that understood by all the AH lovers. Please!

The "Why no AH?" posts are making me sick. Enough already.

A full transcript of the Ziz Chris Wilson Interview can be found here.

"

Arrowneous wrote:

All the difficulty with trading is deliberately done by GGG. Back in January in the Ziz podcast Interview with Chris Wilson Chris stated this:


Path of Exile - Chris Wilson answers questions about PoE with Zizaran

 Ziz: The only other thing people are curious about is, are there any trade changes coming soon?

 Chris: Nothing really worth talking about at the moment. I mean, it's an ongoing discussion, but -- Honestly, the changes to being able to filter AFK people out, and DND people not appear on the list has substantially improved trade as far as we're concerned.
You've seen the manifesto where we've ranted about how we don't want trade to be too easy, and we're not backing down on that at the moment. But the changes we've been making have helped, especially with the item sniping thing where there's a delay on the API so that dedicated personal sniping tools don't work quite as effectively as before. This kind of stuff is helping the trade ecosystem. We think it's in a relatively good place right now, for what it is, considering a lot of people probably hate me saying that, we're still pretty happy with the improvements we've made, and we'll keep an eye out for similar types of improvements that we can make that have a similar type of impact without being an auction house.


The last phrase "without being an auction house" is the same position he and GGG has had from the beginning of PoE. So based on Chris' reaffirming that he is against an auction house we have to stop QQing that PoE needs an AH and start talking about ways to improve the current trade system (as I have done in a previous post here). Please stop the bs about "never say never" on an auction house. We're as likely to ever get one here as we would ever see a "mad cow level" or a "Whimseyshire zone". It's not going to ever happen unless Tencent puts the proverbial gun to Chris' head and forces GGG to do it so get that understood by all the AH lovers. Please!

The "Why no AH?" posts are making me sick. Enough already.

A full transcript of the Ziz Chris Wilson Interview can be found here.

If only people could get clear statements like this trough their thick skulls and stop these incessant and practically useless demands for AH.

Hell I think I would prefer this game was balanced completely around no trading at all. I would probably enjoy that more.

With all respect, currently Mr. Chris Wilson is there for decoration only. Sure, he is GGG’s CEO still, but honestly, why should he care? He is millionaire now, fat cat with all millionaires affairs, you know, big house, big boat, some nice chicks around, drinks with little umbrellas. But real boss is Tencent, and they require one, and only one thing. Money. So if MTX business will not bring enough money, they will do everything, to get it. And what do all want the most? AH. So they will sell some new, overpriced AH tab for instance. Just a matter of time :)

"

postrach_myszy wrote:

With all respect, currently Mr. Chris Wilson is there for decoration only. Sure, he is GGG’s CEO still, but honestly, why should he care? He is millionaire now, fat cat with all millionaires affairs, you know, big house, big boat, some nice chicks around, drinks with little umbrellas. But real boss is Tencent, and they require one, and only one thing. Money. So if MTX business will not bring enough money, they will do everything, to get it. And what do all want the most? AH. So they will sell some new, overpriced AH tab for instance. Just a matter of time :)

Actually only Tencet and the other shareholders know exactly who has the decision making power in POE's development. Everything on reddit or these forums is plain speculation. 80% shares hold a lot of pull but without knowing the details of contract signed we know nothing. For all we know Chris's clause for selling out was keeping full decision power on where the game goes outside China.

Tecennt already was publishing the Chinese POE version that had p2w elements and an AH. My take on it is that they saw the potential and wanted to get in on the action. If you think that we scratch the surface in terms in revenue compared to the Chinese market you are sorely mistaken simply by the size of the market.

Again with this: what do players want the most: AH. That is complete horse shit. "ALL" is not this forum. It's not a representative sample. Even if you count all the "GIEB AH" threads and you place 50 different players for it in each one you get like 1000 players. Those number are randomly pulled out of my ass and way above what we have here and they are still insignificant.

If you look more closely again at the GGG stock filing you will see that Chris, Jonathan, and Erik (the founders) still have a financial stake in GGG but now it is at about 1/3rd of their original total stock.

I don't have any reason to believe that Chris is going to stop being a guiding influence in the future direction of PoE just because he is now very wealthy. He was passionate before the Tencent stock buy-in and I believe that hasn't changed so like I said, unless Tencent forces GGG to code in an AH there will be no AH. There will need to be a very clear financial gain to be had by Tencent before this kind of major game change is made. The AH and botting destroyed the D3 AH and it could potentially do the same thing here if one is added to PoE.

Edit: As pointed out many times by Chris a huge part of PoE is the "quest for rare items" and having an AH will kill the desire to keep grinding in the hopes for a BiS item drop. For example, I did many, many Blood Aqueduct runs in order to get a set of 9 Humility cards to trade for a Tabula Rasa. Sure, I could have used POE.TRADE and whispered to buy one but since it is NOT trivially easy to trade whisper I decided I'd grind for the 9 cards. Blood Aqueduct, by being super linear, also makes it easy to run a bunch of incursions so I killed 2 birds with one stone and am happier for having done that instead of just jumping into an auction house and buying the cheapest Tabula.

It sounds to me like the "PoE needs an auction house now" crowd are mostly younger players of the "entitlement" and "instant gratification" generation. Like WORK (grinding) is a 4 letter word and needs to be avoided. Just gimme the AH so a can just grind currency and full gear my way to level 100 immediately is what the AH crowd wants. They are clueless as to BC time (Before personal Computers) and don't value the rewards of hard work for any goal. PoE is a "long term" arpg and you're not supposed to be done in a year or two. Hell, after 5.5 years I still haven't gotten to Guardians or Shaper yet and if I had done that content and bested them years ago I'd most likely be done playing PoE. I'm not a bad player but I am a "filthy casual" so I don't put in huge amounts of time each week (10 to 15 hours at most) and thus don't expect any "quick riches" of gear or a level 100 build. I've reached a PoE knowledge level that allows me to be ok with that.

"

Arrowneous wrote:

Edit: As pointed out many times by Chris a huge part of PoE is the "quest for rare items" and having an AH will kill the desire to keep grinding in the hopes for a BiS item drop.

That's not a good argument for your anti-AH regime.

I have many rare items and chase uniques, and guess how I obtained them?

Trading is just as fucked as AH, the only difference is one is more newbie friendly, easier, and faster than than the other.

To be blunt, we all wanted the same shit. The majority has no idea how to trade to win in PoE, and we don't want our power thru years of learning in the trading simulator to leak out to them fucking noobie plebs.

There. Like Arrowneous said can we fucking stop talking about AH now?


edit: the only way your argument is valid is if you only play SSF or copy D3 and have a soulbond system in place.

Account bound gear... YUCK! No thank you!

"

Arrowneous wrote:

Account bound gear... YUCK! No thank you!

Exactly

We just don't want to lose our power to them plebs.
So fuck AH.
There's no more explanation needed.

The path to BiS gear and level 100 builds of course is the goal of all. How easy or not and how long it takes is what all the talking/arguing is about.

Only other PoE goals are based on insanity. Like, the number 23 is a special number. I have farmed 9 Oni-Goroshi swords to date and thus I will need 14 more to reach a goal of 23 total. Like I said, a goal based on pure insanity.

Maybe "PoE filthy rich" (1000s of exalts) is another goal that doesn't require BiS gear or a level 100 build, just commodity flipping. Boring as fuck to me but hey "whatever floats your boat". But then Twilight Strand Beach grinding is also "boring as fuck" for most so live and let live. TencentGGG just needs to keep PoE as open a sandbox of an arpg that they can.