Feedback and Suggestions (Path of Exile 1) - Beta feedback The biggest problem of PoE-Leeachers - Forum

Oh back, sorry for my missunderstanding. on that distance I actually have no answer, maybe can do some trial next time in a party. invited by timer @ 10.12.2011 -- deutsche Community: www.exiled.eu & ts.exiled.eu	Posted by Mr_Cee#0334 on Mar 12, 2012, 6:18:39 PM Quote this Post
You cant just nerf the front runner? If you feel someone is leaching in your party then you have every right to kick them.	Posted by slobknob#6113 on Mar 13, 2012, 2:05:41 PM Quote this Post
" Ragnar119 wrote: Well leacher per se are not the problem, but possibility that they exist. If you have a group of 6 characters, and only 1 is playing and killing everything in few seconds, that is the real problem. If they fix it, leecher will stop to exist, because everyone in group would need to fight to survive, and one player can not do it by himself. This is the conclusion I agree with. Legitimate leeches exist due to a gap in content, or content not deemed worth playing through again. In this case they are not the problem- the content is. The fact that the group mechanics permit leeching to occur is the true issue. One user can run multiple accounts and provide his own leechers to abuse the quantity boost. Making adjustments to experience will do nothing for the abusive case, only deter legitimate leechers. If you want to read more on this issue I had a thread going three weeks ago in beta general discussion: How can GGG encourage group play while restricting abuse? (or is leeching fine?) http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/20280] Some background for those unaware of the current system and plans: Spoiler Mechanics: " Malice wrote: Parties The maximum party size is 6 players. Effect on monsters Monsters gain 50% extra life for each additional party member after the first. For example, against a party of 3 players, monsters have double life. The original life amount is used for the purposes of determining the length of stuns and status ailments from elemental damage - this means monsters will not be harder to stun/ignite/etc. when fighting in a party. Effect on loot Each player in a party after the first gives the equivalent of +50% item quantity modifier on drops. So a party of three will see twice as many drops as a lone character. Increased Item Rarity & Quantity modifiers are only counted from the player who lands the killing blow. Effect on experience Players in a party gain less experience for each monster kill than if they were alone. For the full experience formula, see the level scaling section above. Only party members actually in the instance count toward getting XP. If one member is in town he gets no XP. Monsters give +75% base XP for every party member after the first. Effect on flasks Only the character landing the killing blow on an enemy will gain flask charges. The same is true for all +life and +mana gained "when you deal a killing blow" modifiers. Flasks have a +75% charge recovery bonus for each party member after the first. Plans for public party: " Chris wrote: We intend to allow players to make their party public so that others can join. Players will be able to search for parties that are appropriate for their level or the boss/quest they’d like to do. We'd like to encourage players to make their parties public so that they can easily find additional players to adventure with. We hope to have this in before Open Beta. Plans for Endgame: " Chris wrote: Boss runs will be challenging and rewarding. As mentioned elsewhere in this document, players will have to play through the previous areas (from the last waypoint) to get to each act boss rather than abuse instance-management to run it multiple times. We'll make sure the run is challenging and requires tactical play in the boss encounter. The item yield will feel more rewarding than it currently does. In terms of end-game grinding content, currently players have access to the "Maelstrom of Chaos", which is a set of relatively chaotic random areas at the end of the game that can drop the highest items. The core concept of having end-game areas to play in will stay, of course, but the new system will offer greater control of how challenging the players want it to be. Some players have built characters that have substantially higher damage output than other players, and we'll make sure that these characters have a challenging place to play. From the manifesto entries it sounds like the public party system will make it easier for item farmers and leeches to hook up. The changes to make boss farming worthwhile and challenging would not restrict leechers from standing at the entrance and then running through to the next level after a farmer has cleared the path. The plans to add challenge selection for players who have built extremely powerful characters would offer specific options based on the number of leeches one acquired. Only one leech available -> pick hardest option (this system would be based on risk vs. reward I assume), found three leeches -> choose easier content. The current party mechanics reward both leecher and farmer without requiring either to 'jump through hoops'. The leech just stands by a portal gaining experience, while the farmer gains +50% item quantity for each leech he acquires. If a restriction such as: "Players have to stay within a certain proximity to gain positive party bonuses, but the negative party effects apply regardless" was implemented to curb afk leechers, would this harm genuine party play? (just an example, not that it would stop leeching) Can GGG reward legitimate group players and restrict abuse of leeching in some way- or is the farmer/leecher relationship not actually abusing party mechanics and recognized as a fair trade? edit Proposed solution: Spoiler Effect on loot Monsters gain +50% increased quantity for each player damaging them after the first (only applies once per player per monster). So a party of three will see twice as many drops as a lone character when they work together. It makes sense to me that players would cooperate to achieve their goals while partied up. This would also place everyone in close proximity to fight over FFA loot (since they were all attacking the same enemies to increase quantity). Changing the quantity bonus to depend on participation would encourage coordination while in a party, and at the same time eliminate the abusive leeching situation. Not sure I still like the proposed solution from last month, but its there.	Posted by Lo4f#2652 on Mar 13, 2012, 3:53:21 PM Quote this Post
" slobknob wrote: You cant just nerf the front runner? If you feel someone is leaching in your party then you have every right to kick them. Thing is that front runners get benefits from leechers(increase drop rates), same as leechers themselves (free xp and also items, if they follow them). Because of unbalance skills 1 player can do all the killing alone, in full party. Leachers,do nothing, just stand, or follow them close. Both of them are abusing the system to get benefits.	Posted by Ragnar119#4963 on Mar 13, 2012, 3:56:38 PM Quote this Post
" Ragnar119 wrote: Because of unbalance skills 1 player can do all the killing alone, in full party. Its not (only) a matter of skill balancing - its also to some degree a general problem in game design: if you (as dev) desire to want a huge amount of average players being somewhat successful in a game, you'll (and have to) make it so that big parts of the game are beatable even with average equipment... if now we take a very good player and combine him with high above average gear and put him in this same situation of the game - you cant prevent him from ruling all, even with some (or up to max) leechers following him. invited by timer @ 10.12.2011 -- deutsche Community: www.exiled.eu & ts.exiled.eu	Posted by Mr_Cee#0334 on Mar 13, 2012, 5:37:12 PM Quote this Post
" Mr_Cee wrote: " Ragnar119 wrote: Because of unbalance skills 1 player can do all the killing alone, in full party. Its not (only) a matter of skill balancing - its also to some degree a general problem in game design: if you (as dev) desire to want a huge amount of average players being somewhat successful in a game, you'll (and have to) make it so that big parts of the game are beatable even with average equipment... if now we take a very good player and combine him with high above average gear and put him in this same situation of the game - you cant prevent him from ruling all, even with some (or up to max) leechers following him. If skill didnt do that much dmg (and other balance problems), almost every player that joined would need to play with you, no metter of your skill or items. Im talking here only about end game. Its normal that perfect balance is impossible to make, but at least it will lower the problems with leeaching. But even, if it's not totally balanced, there must be restrictions for lower lvl character joining your party, that applies for both sides. Also we are talking here about last difficulty,that should not be for average people. For casual and average we have normal and other difficulties. How I understand (and hope)devs will not make last difficulty (or end game) for casuals and average.	Posted by Ragnar119#4963 on Mar 13, 2012, 6:09:22 PM Quote this Post
" Ragnar119 wrote: Thing is that front runners get benefits from leechers(increase drop rates), same as leechers themselves (free xp and also items, if they follow them). Because of unbalance skills 1 player can do all the killing alone, in full party. Leachers,do nothing, just stand, or follow them close. Both of them are abusing the system to get benefits. This. A lot of what I hear about isn't people jumping in parties to leech, it's people actively looking for people to party up and sit at Chaos entrance just to get the party benefits. You could achieve the same thing with multiple beta keys and a few laptops off to the side of your main gaming rig.	Posted by unsmith#1924 on Mar 13, 2012, 6:12:01 PM Alpha Member Quote this Post
" Ragnar119 wrote: Also we are talking here about last difficulty,that should not be for average people. For casual and average we have normal and other difficulties. How I understand (and hope)devs will not make last difficulty (or end game) for casuals and average. For the endgame (if it will be present in a somewhat similar shape of MoC now), there's a absolutely simple solution: Make this content available/accessable only to chars which completed the whole content before -> no lowish leechers anymore... To fit even in detail, the effort to rush chars through the game must be high enough to make it nearly not worthwile. invited by timer @ 10.12.2011 -- deutsche Community: www.exiled.eu & ts.exiled.eu Last edited by Mr_Cee#0334 on Mar 13, 2012, 6:38:48 PM	Posted by Mr_Cee#0334 on Mar 13, 2012, 6:37:20 PM Quote this Post
A lot of the problems with difference in difficulty between normal content and chaos will soon be moot because of act 3 and so on. Discussing it is a bit pointless. The discussion about certain skills being too powerful seems fine. I still see the possibilities in Avatar of Fire, Blood Magic + every aoe-spell except Molten Core, Rain of Fire, Sweep and Lightning Strike taking a lowering of effectiveness indirectly through changes in calculations or area of effect-size. I appear to be living in "Romance Standard Time". That has to be good! :)	Posted by radiatoren#0601 on Mar 13, 2012, 7:36:56 PM Quote this Post
" Mr_Cee wrote: " skaterboy80 wrote: The Quantity buff must go away FOR EVER , period IMHO, the quantity increase is a MUST for regulary playing the game in a party (as intended): if I consider (as example) 1 of 10 items to be useful for a single player, every added char in a party doubles this number of needed gear - and there's no similar way to increase the quote, since even better quality did not guarantee usefulness. May I ask why would a cut-throat world like PoE reward you for just being grouped with a SOME other players ? It makes absolutely no sense whatsoever . Last edited by skaterboy80#3665 on Mar 14, 2012, 10:12:07 PM	Posted by skaterboy80#3665 on Mar 14, 2012, 10:03:51 PM Quote this Post