Is everyone enjoying rolepalying a genocidal plunderer?

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鬼殺し wrote:

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de99ial wrote:

No its not. If we would consume less meta there would be less suffering.

With that I agree.

Oh i see what he did with my post. Need to pay more attention but and i use it to comfort myself im not the only one who missed it.

"Herro" joke is corelated with Japanese seplling. I kinda like this wordplay.

Also - IMHO - trolls dont deserve to be recognised. If someone trolling and You or anyone else is approaching them with "ok let make it srrious for dmg control" attitude it just feeds the troll. Also each and every person has its own responsibility about how and what information he/she takes it. Worrying about virtual creatures when there are so many wrong things in real world is just... well... retarded.

Also to claryfie - word i used i didnt have in mind homosexuals. With that word i describe a certain mind set that becomes kinda template in modern world and i see this as something harmfull especially to so called "wester civilizations" (yeah right now i recognise several of them due to cultural changes).

And last but not least - i really dont understanw what "meta" is. Several ppl tried to explain but each and everyone understood this term in different way. I guess its become a "lockpick word" to use when one needs to justyfie his/hers lack of knowledge and understanding. From my perspective if game mechanics allows for such things and it is not changed by devs it means it is allowed and workds as intended. Its just more efficient way. I guess in this league arc builds are seeing as "meta" but i might be wrong.

Meta is confusing. There are a few other uses for it but for here -

META 1) Most Effective Tactic Available. Straightforward gaming term.

META 2) You could say that meta means "self referencing", when people use it on the internet.

A picture might help:



^ META 1 on the left and META 2 on the right.

On feeding trolls, being earnest - lol, please don't make my internet more like real life with readable cues and responding in kind to those cues and such!

The article the picture comes from:
https://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/11/17/how-to-live-without-irony/
Written in 2012, relevant today

Well...

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So the answer to new broken meta is older broken post-meta-but-still-meta-cause-it-aint-been-nerfed-meta?

I don't get it.

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Shaped Ramparts Meta next meta? :D

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Whining about whining.

Meta-whining.

That makes this meta-meta-whining.

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Critical Strikes - meta
Projectiles - meta
utility to allies - did someone say auras !
minions - boring
Traps, Mines and Totems - sunblast
Armor and/or Evasion - meta

dont touch meta, because if its gone its gone

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Funny how people use the word meta more than they say hi on a day. Here a meta there a meta, everyone gets a meta ! And they are all different in your individual heads, isn't that wonderful !

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Meta running uber lab under 3 mins
Meta running Sharper under 10 mins
Meta getting through all the content...

GGG thinks... ok, the time has come!! Let's give the meta a league. Sounds appealing. XD

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Slivertongue was never meta. Or good even. Xoph's isn't exactly the meta either. It's not bad or anything, but just isn't the meta.

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I refuse to follow the meta , but meta follows me .

There is no escape .

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I_NO plays meta

meta =/= blade vortex

Peace,

-Boem-

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do you even meta bro

just be meta and you'll do fine

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almostdead wrote:

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CAKE wrote:

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Eldubs wrote:

You can kill shaper with dominating blow.

Pls show me how you do it WITHOUT META build because argument was "any build as long as i have fun"
So going naked with socket ring that give dominating blow
should be viable

Pretty sure you could kill him with auto attack too,using meta build and just switching active attack gem to basic punch

wtf? I don't think you know what meta means.

*

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Wiki wrote:

Metagaming
Metagaming is any strategy, action or method used in a game which transcends a prescribed ruleset, uses external factors to affect the game, or goes beyond the supposed limits or environment set by the game. Another definition refers to the game universe outside of the game itself. In role-play situations, for example, it would mean to tell somebody some information about another player or something they are doing that the said player's character should not intrinsically know about. In simple terms, it is the use of out-of-game information or resources to affect one's in-game decisions.

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The prefix ‘meta’ has acquired something of a bad rep over the last few years. It has come to be understood primarily in terms of self-reflection – i.e. a text about a text, a picture about a picture, etc. But ‘meta’ originally intends something rather more colloquial. According to the Greek-English Lexicon the preposition and prefix ‘meta’(μετά) has several meanings and connotations. Most commonly it translates as ‘after’. But it can also be used to denote qualitative ‘changes’ or to designate positions such as ‘with’ and ‘between’. In Plato’s Symposium, for example, the term metaxy designates an ontological betweenness (we will return to this in more detail in a later post). The Online Etymology Dictionary gives the following description:

prefix meaning 1. “after, behind,” 2. “changed, altered,” 3. “higher, beyond,”

I get your definition, Charan, and agree that PoE players are metagaming, usually. Those sound like some fun times, with clearly defined understandings between players.

There were 2700-odd pages of results for this forum for "meta" within threads. I used the first few, in order from newest. Sadly, the oldest were unavailable (pruned?) so sifting to the oldest page was a task for someone with an etymological bent, time, and patience. It would be interesting to look at the earliest forum uses, as now the "word" means so many things and most assume that others understand their meaning, and it's a mess.

Personally, I go with the backronym, or someone using a buzzword in an ironic sense most of the time. People usually indicate they mean something else when they do.

On the incursion theme - can't quite find "meta-american civilization" catchy.



*quotes mostly uncredited, because that's how the meta is. Interested parties can search "meta" in the forum search function for sources.

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鬼殺し wrote:

Beyond monsters, First Ones, the 'Gods' awakened from the Beast, Abyssal liches, the Vaal, The Shaper, The Elder...Wraeclast doesn't lack for big bads but they're not, to me, part of the same overall story. League gimmicks and actual expansions are not inherently linked lore-wise, but there'll probably always be nods and winks.

Well, its ggg fault for making lore so foggy and lame. It does fit to poe game quite nicely but with wierd ass half hidden narratives here and there it doesnt make you interested in it or makes you understand wtf is going on.

Abyss monsters fit atlas, atlas and beyond fit as much as atlas and elder. And they do. Vaal is like definately lore friendly but with no normal lore, so you are bound do scout the wiki or somewhere and it doesnt make you interested as other games who really present the lore in a easy and quick way.

It will be fitted eventually.

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We7efrur wrote:

I'm certainly not. GGG must be living under rocks to force players to roleplay the genocide of the native americans by the Spanish Conquistadors with an extremely thinly veiled 'Kill the Native Americans for loot' story line in 2018.

Yes, Yes, I'm a filthy casual and I'm sure I'll be pilloried for being a snowflake SJW, but just think for a minute what the present Incursion League is really portraying.

God have mercy...I am Native American: All your little tirade does is make me realize how entirely senseless most of the people who moved into our homelands really are, and how little SJWs care about how we feel (each of us, not one specific chunk of people) about anything.

Please...just go away. You do not speak for me or any of my tribe.

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We7efrur wrote:

I'm certainly not. GGG must be living under rocks to force players to roleplay the genocide of the native americans by the Spanish Conquistadors with an extremely thinly veiled 'Kill the Native Americans for loot' story line in 2018.

Yes, Yes, I'm a filthy casual and I'm sure I'll be pilloried for being a snowflake SJW, but just think for a minute what the present Incursion League is really portraying.

Another manipulated guy who tries to manipulate others trough guilt and even accepting being pilloried.. Sad story "when we think about who/what original post owner is really portraying."

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Orbaal wrote:

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Excyis wrote:

I logged in just to let you know I'm here to laugh at you OP.

+1

Gotta love the crazy SJWs ^^
Always delivering comedy gold

+1 comedy perspective seems healthier than being upset .)

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鬼殺し wrote:

Hardly the first futile war against the mutability of language as a result of ignorant dissemination I've struggled not to fight, erd. :)

Well, Charan, quixotic comes from the Latin for hip. Before it also meant cool.

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鬼殺し wrote:

Although to be fair I'm willing to bet the devs themselves are old rpg players and would lean towards the traditional definition of 'meta' as a shortening of 'metagaming'. That does matter.

Yes, it does matter.

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I see nothing 'meta' about Incursion in that light. It's referential and stereotyped, certainly, but it's not really 'outside' or 'beyond' anything else. Just another expansion/league in a long line of them. Facile excuses to kill shit, loot shit, upgrade shit, die to shit on occasion.

Meta-american as a corruption of mesoamerican not working makes sense then, eh?

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鬼殺し wrote:

Almost an aside: way back when Sacrifice of the Vaal was introduced to PoE, I asked Chris if the accompanying hardcore league gimmick that came with it was related to the expansion's theme. That gimmick was Invasion, and involved super-strong versions of enemies from other areas popping up all over the place. This to me seemed to be an easy tie-in with the awakening of Atziri and her attempt to return to the world. But the answer was no, not really. Almost like they hadn't even thought about it....League gimmicks and actual expansions are not inherently linked lore-wise, but there'll probably always be nods and winks...

The whole insight there is interesting. I snipped it because it's right there a couple of posts above for people to read in full.

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LOREWEAVE wrote:

When it comes to finding a use for surplus,
a rich man has within himself
boundless creativity.

Exactly the right combination of 60 flavour texts I hear tell gives a Loreweave that quotes Hamlet.

To me, if there was a narrative that wove together, we would have cutscenes,especially at the end when the stashes merge.

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鬼殺し wrote:

Freeform RP wasn't fun times...it was intense-as-fuck times. The IRC channels I ran were active 24/7 and I had to be there controlling npcs and making sure people weren't trashing the city for at least 16 hours a day -- I had assistants but they, rightfully, couldn't be expected to put that much into it for absolutely no pay or recompense. And we typically had 30-50 players active at any given time, all pumping out fairly well written paragraphs every five or so minutes...or whip-fast dialogue every 30 seconds...

Let's just say I was delighted when I discovered EverQuest where 'RP' could be nothing more than building a character, interacting with the pre-existing world and sticking to dialogue...

Well, that sounds like fun to me, but I take your point.

It's certainly a modern spin on many writers' newspaper days where they honed their craft.

Apologies for the double post, somehow my edit got gnarled up* fixing quote boxes and I can't put this in there:

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darkpoetcc wrote:

God have mercy...I am Native American: All your little tirade does is make me realize how entirely senseless most of the people who moved into our homelands really are, and how little SJWs care about how we feel (each of us, not one specific chunk of people) about anything.

Please...just go away. You do not speak for me or any of my tribe.

Hmm, yeah, I can appreciate that's easy to see as being really this:

http://i65.tinypic.com/1zzj8sj.jpg

It's really pointless without real "walk in shoes" empathy isn't it? And then asking, not speaking for. Thanks for the reminder.

ed: oh I see. Caffeination bug.

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鬼殺し wrote:

People in the know commonly called FFRP 'Massively Multiplayer Online Notepad'. Teehee.

With no shorthand, to boot.

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Interesting point regarding cut-scenes. They were oft talked about during the beta, not as a possibility but an im-. Budget was the usual reason given. But then GGG started releasing trailer and teaser videos with lots of zoom-ins and pan-overs and camera rotation. They were clearly trying to bring their world to life with these, although these days it's usually just used to sell a new mtx.

(As an aside, now that I'm no longer supporting or even playing, I do see how this must look to an outsider: paying premium prices for aesthetic mtxes that need to be seen up-close to appreciate in a game where zooming in is both highly restricted and counter-intuitive to how the game is played....)

Now that the shaper doesn't change the screen to a 60's anarchist poster when he appears in an Elder influenced boss fight, you can get some really nice screenshots zoomed in.

Hopefully with the budget increase we will get some cutscenes and maybe even Hellgate London style PoV.

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It seems to me that the game has reached a point where anyone who cares knows the 'lore' is just a palimpsest, traced carefully but lacking anything really original -- and everyone else doesn't need even that much.

Palimpsests often do have original recoverable material in them. Interestingly in the light of the recent aquisition -

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Wiki wrote:

Cultural considerations also motivated the creation of palimpsests. The demand for new texts might outstrip the availability of parchment in some centers, yet the existence of cleaned parchment that was never overwritten suggests that there was also a spiritual motivation, to sanctify pagan text by overlaying it with the word of God, somewhat as pagan sites were overlaid with Christian churches to hallow pagan ground. Or the pagan texts may have merely appeared irrelevant.

Texts most susceptible to being overwritten included obsolete legal and liturgical ones, sometimes of intense interest to the historian. Early Latin translations of Scripture were rendered obsolete by Jerome's Vulgate. Texts might be in foreign languages or written in unfamiliar scripts that had become illegible over time. The codices themselves might be already damaged or incomplete. Heretical texts were dangerous to harbor—there were compelling political and religious reasons to destroy texts viewed as heresy, and to reuse the media was less wasteful than simply to burn the books.

Vast destruction of the broad quartos of the early centuries took place in the period which followed the fall of the Western Roman Empire, but palimpsests were also created as new texts were required during the Carolingian Renaissance. The most valuable Latin palimpsests are found in the codices which were remade from the early large folios in the 7th to the 9th centuries. It has been noticed that no entire work is generally found in any instance in the original text of a palimpsest, but that portions of many works have been taken to make up a single volume. An exception is the Archimedes Palimpsest (see below). On the whole, early medieval scribes were thus not indiscriminate in supplying themselves with material from any old volumes that happened to be at hand.

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鬼殺し wrote:

That is to say, maybe TencentGGG can finally abstract PoE away from its unwieldy 'world'. At some point, I think the lore of Wraeclast did hold up to scrutiny as a coherent whole. It might have even made sense. But it doesn't anymore. What is important is how few people care.

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The game I'm playing right now, obsessively, has zero lore. It is raw, distilled. On a similar note, until very recently, the top board-games on BoardGameGeek were almost all abstracted rather than lore-heavy (Gloomhaven is some weird perfect storm of abstract play, rpg character development and concrete lore -- with really bad but serviceable writing). Lore is great done right but if your game is good regardless, as I think PoE is, there has to come a point where you ask yourself why you bother.

Oh definitely lore isn't necessary to a good game experience. I think it might depend on how visually complex the world is/ needs to be. The visual aspect of PoE would be completely shallow without being lore-informed. Personally, I haven't much studied the lore, because it's seemed "telly" and I'm generally busy looting, but a friend I play with is really into it and he's inspired me to pay more attention. I'm glad it's there, and think it's not overtly appreciated but people would notice it's not there as everything would become homogenized visually without it. Imagine how grindy the maps would be without being lore-informed (even if that lore is a palimpsest?!).

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鬼殺し wrote:

Fucking seriously. That is the absolute essence of the easily-mocked SJW...

--neat distinction-drawing--

...Thus I can say Incursion is culturally insensitive and lazy and believe it (and I've run it by several people unrelated to PoE now), but it doesn't offend me. I won't take up arms against TencentGGG over it. They know this is a super-soft target by now, and that their players are, like, super-hard. Look at some of the responses in this thread. Ooh, genocide is fun! I'd kill their women and children in this game too! Probably. Just a game. They still feel the need to say how badass they are...

Anyway, my contention with Bestiary was much deeper and indicative of bigger problems I saw coming, and there they were. Incursion? Other than a shitty premise that makes sieves look positively watertight, it seems to play well and please the addicts. That's all that matters now.

Indeed. I like the thought and discussion the themes provoke, especially in Bestiary, although it generally reveals that the vocal majority are far from the kind of people who might eat out at a non food chain restaurant, and might consider the vegan option with a [gasp!] female who has various opinions on various topics and splits the bill. Of course, there are many exceptions!

On Incursion: If it wasn't Vaal themed, I'd be more inclined to agree. The watercolour of the temple, the designs and the way they link to the Oversoul, Atziri, and such deepen the game for me, at least. As you enter the temple, there's a round stone just like the seal in the Vaal ruins, for example. I think there are people at TencentGGG who care about quality in that respect, still.

Oh and I enjoy the loot. Definitely addicted, but manageably so.