Buggy and frustrating Shaper /Elder influence system

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skaterboy80 wrote:

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DamageIncorporated wrote:

I'm really getting frustrated with the Atlas. Half a dozen times this afternoon, I specifically run a map that has Shaper influence, that is beside elder influence. I periodically press G to check the influence... kill enough mobs and boom! now the map has NO influence! It doesn't make any sense.

I'll do the same "method" on a different map and it works as expected ( Elder takes the map over) but half the time I either get this wacky behavior or even worse, Elder influence retreats!

At the beginning of this league I thought it was the coolest thing since sliced bread. 2nd best league next to Breach. Now I think this is the worst league. The influence system is punitive, and clumsy. On top of this strange buggy behavior, you also have to be careful and not finish the map or it can go from shaper, to elder to no influence. So, the game punishes you for the existence of the influence system and you get screwed out of the potential drops left in the map. This can feel really punitive if you need to change influence, in a t14 or t15. It can also be expensive buying 2 of a t15 map cuz you need to change influence, then run it AGAIN for the shaper orb.

Also, I'm STILL stuck at 11/15 shaper orbs. I've spread influence all over the map, tier 1-15 and there are no other orbs. Do I have to kill Elder or what?

What a terrible system. Who designed this shit?

It's not buggy , just RNG .

I think is buggy. It happened to me couple time also as OP explained. I has no connection with 30 elder maps or not. It just happens randomly. Sometimes elder get that map and sometimes not. It really frustrating. And the worst on other side I usually loose already eldered map. Now that map is clear without any influence. Terrible system indeed.

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Kastmar wrote:

I think is buggy. It happened to me couple time also as OP explained. I has no connection with 30 elder maps or not. It just happens randomly. Sometimes elder get that map and sometimes not. It really frustrating. And the worst on other side I usually loose already eldered map. Now that map is clear without any influence. Terrible system indeed.

Have not seen a single example so far that wasn't either the user misunderstanding the system or RNG.

So, ill list the possible things that could have happened.

First, think of the war as a game. Every time you run a map (shaper influence/elder influence/no influence), it is considered 1 turn in the game. The map you chose to run is your move in that turn and the shaper and elder (who are the other players) may or may not make a move this turn as well.

Now you choose to run a shaper influence map next to an elder map. This is your move for the turn. At the end of the map, you find that the elder did not spread to the map you ran. Possible reasons:

1) The map was geographically next to an elder map but not connected (most common reason as its really hard to see connections on the atlas)
2) You are at 30 elder maps and thus elder cannot spread to this map.
3) You are at 29 elder maps but just as you made your move, the elder took another map elsewhere bringing it to 30 and thus cannot spread to the map you ran.
4) You attacked a shaper influenced map that had another shaper map next to it and got really unlucky. That means your move was to take over that map, but then the shapers move was to take it back in the same turn.
5) You attacked a shaper map as your move and the shaper as his move attacked a weak point in your elder influence. Since elder influence can never break into two pieces, one entire piece gets given to the shaper and your map was in that piece.

I am yet to see a single post on the forums that isn't a misunderstanding of the system and is a genuine bug. If its happened to you, take a second to look carefully at your atlas (use https://atlas.poekit.net/ to clearly see connections) and confirm that it couldnt possibly have been one of the above cases.

~Myth

I must say, I got screwed over by this quite hard as well - but I suspect that was my fault, not sure though.

Was trying to get the shaper orb to shape my T8 to T13 - I did the same thing I did for T11 and T12, picked a map where shaper is on, pushed elder towards it, then complete the T11/12 once so that Elder takes it over.
These maps then acquired the blue frame, indicating that I can do the memory fragment quest in there. Worked fine.

Then i did the same thing for the T13 map, however Elder did not take over ... and that kind of owned me. I have already removed the T11 and T12 maps from my Atlas so that I restrict my drops to the shaped ones only.

I fear that I now have no choice but to do the same thing again, so having to remove T11, T12 once more. Let's hope this time it actually works. I think that Elder had too many maps and that's why he did not take over, but it might have been RNG as well.

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Mythkiller wrote:

1) The map was geographically next to an elder map but not connected (most common reason as its really hard to see connections on the atlas)
2) You are at 30 elder maps and thus elder cannot spread to this map.
3) You are at 29 elder maps but just as you made your move, the elder took another map elsewhere bringing it to 30 and thus cannot spread to the map you ran.
4) You attacked a shaper influenced map that had another shaper map next to it and got really unlucky. That means your move was to take over that map, but then the shapers move was to take it back in the same turn.
5) You attacked a shaper map as your move and the shaper as his move attacked a weak point in your elder influence. Since elder influence can never break into two pieces, one entire piece gets given to the shaper and your map was in that piece.

~Myth

Thanks a lot for this, this explanation is very solid. Will use for future interactions with this system.

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Player089 wrote:

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Mythkiller wrote:

1) The map was geographically next to an elder map but not connected (most common reason as its really hard to see connections on the atlas)
2) You are at 30 elder maps and thus elder cannot spread to this map.
3) You are at 29 elder maps but just as you made your move, the elder took another map elsewhere bringing it to 30 and thus cannot spread to the map you ran.
4) You attacked a shaper influenced map that had another shaper map next to it and got really unlucky. That means your move was to take over that map, but then the shapers move was to take it back in the same turn.
5) You attacked a shaper map as your move and the shaper as his move attacked a weak point in your elder influence. Since elder influence can never break into two pieces, one entire piece gets given to the shaper and your map was in that piece.

~Myth

Thanks a lot for this, this explanation is very solid. Will use for future interactions with this system.

Thank you I will observe its behavior.

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Dkodr wrote:

They made it annoying on purpose cause that's what they do, annoy people with frustrating and punishing game mechanics.

Fun shall never be achieved
~Chris Wilson

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LowBudget780 wrote:

The other night I somehow managed to spawn 3 guardians I needed for shaper's orbs, two on a t14 and one t15 (they had the circles on the map node and it said kill guardian for memory fragment.) I killed the t15 guardian first and then one of the t14 guardian memory fragment completions disappeared even though the guardian was still on the map, lol gg.

you will get the orbs in order - so if you get an orb from T15 map while not having got one from T12 map, you will be getting the T12 orb. You needed the T15 kill for the last orb but you only had guardians/elder on T14 maps at that point.

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LowBudget780 wrote:

That's pretty fuckin stupid if true.

why

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LowBudget780 wrote:

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almostdead wrote:

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LowBudget780 wrote:

That's pretty fuckin stupid if true.

why

Alright well like I was saying, I had Guardians spawned on 3 Atlas nodes, one T15 and two T14s. All it said was "Map Boss has a Shaper's Memory Fragment, I already had 11/15 shaper's orbs (Got one from a T15 Elder somehow.) There was nothing telling me to run the bosses in a specific order, the Elder influence was already spread and had spawned Elder/Guardians. Once I ran the T15 one of the T14 Memory Fragment options disappeared from the Guardian yet he was still in the same spot on the Atlas and the other one didn't change at all. So instead of three orbs I received two for no apparent reason.

So yeah system is fucking dumb. You shouldn't need Rain Man level autism just to figure out how to collect some shaper's orbs after they have already spawned on the correct tiers.

Yea so in that situation, you had to run the t14 before you ran the t15. Because once you run the t15, the game gives you the orb you would have gotten from t14 and then recognizes that your next orb should come from a t15 and so removes the t14 indicators from the atlas.

I agree, the system for getting the orbs is not intuitive at all. I mean, it makes sense in hindsight but there need to be better guidance/indicators.

~Myth

we agreed