150 points map tab bollocks BONUS: Fragment tab is 75 points, totaling at 22,5$!

You can ignore facts and just act like it isn't one, but this doesn't change much.

And that imposing my views on others is called discussion. If you want to believe what you believe, no matter the arguments, you will. And you are. So I won't try to impose my views on you anymore, don't worry.

p2w is a fact now. it had been since premium trade tabs but right now advantage given by various XY tabs is prety 'redonqulous'

using special tabs you save the most precious resource - your own time - no time wasted doing muling (i bet people who use this 'argument' never muled anything themselves - it is a nightmare), ability to do actual trade (trading when muling - what fun!), ability to collect useful stuff (div cards, essences) that are very useful in LARGE QUANTITIES

cosmetic MTX are ethical and f2p. stash tabs ARE NOT cosmetics. they DO alter the way you play. these DO allow you to actually make more with your time.

you can twist the 'f2p' and try to portray it as a 'scale' - but once you make 'truth' relative you know you are lying. the same goes here. stash tabs are not etical f2p mtx. they are direct p2w tools that allow you do things faster, easier and with less time wasted

people who claim otherwise are free to create another account and play with 4 tabs for a while to 'enjoy' the spoils of ethical f2p gameplay

NOTE: i have 0 issues with the very fact of tab existence and its price. but pretending this game is 'ethical mtx sponsored' is a lie and hypocrisy used squarely to lure guilible people to support the 'charitable business practices' and earn 'heart&kisses points' among the press and crowd. i loath this kind of strategy on so many levels

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Perq wrote:

Term cynical has two meaning, actually. At least according to wiki - one is commonly used now, as in somewhat negative way, the other is philosophy which in turn was viewed as a positive back in the days of its creation.

But yes, less I mean dishonesty, more or less. That paired with the fact they are using term ethical free to play which people associate with 0 pay to win, which isn't true anymore.

I see, then i suggest using dishonest instead of cynical. Because of this double meaning, being dishonest to your customers is far worse than being cynical. As you said being cynical is sometimes a good thing.

No idea how it got this meaning in english. Sry but for some reason it bothered me. Didn't know you can actually use it like that.

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Pyrokar wrote:

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Perq wrote:

Term cynical has two meaning, actually. At least according to wiki - one is commonly used now, as in somewhat negative way, the other is philosophy which in turn was viewed as a positive back in the days of its creation.

But yes, less I mean dishonesty, more or less. That paired with the fact they are using term ethical free to play which people associate with 0 pay to win, which isn't true anymore.

I see, then i suggest using dishonest instead of cynical. Because of this double meaning, being dishonest to your customers is far worse than being cynical. As you said being cynical is sometimes a good thing.

No idea how it got this meaning in english. Sry but for some reason it bothered me. Didn't know you can actually use it like that.

I think what he blabbers about is 'being a cynic', compared to being 'cynical'

Also 'dishonest', can't be said having the same exact meaning as 'cynical'. One can behave cynically in a completely open and honest way.

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GraydingEarJames wrote:

I think what he blabbers about is 'being a cynic', compared to being 'cynical'

Also 'dishonest', can't be said having the same exact meaning as 'cynical'. One can behave cynically in a completely open and honest way.

But you can also lie in a cynical way. And nobody said cynical means dishonest.

I'd say we all understand what we mean at this point, think we should focus on why GGG does stuff it does, instead of picking the right word, shall we?

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Perq wrote:

Think we should focus on why GGG does stuff it does, instead of picking the right word, shall we?

I think that's easy.
They NEED to make money.

Free to play games are not foor poor

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Perq wrote:

... think we should focus on why GGG does stuff it does, instead of picking the right word, shall we?

Easy answer is companies, or individuals, need money to keep going. GGG is expanding its business, China market and lately Xbox version of the game, which means the team itself grows, More people mean more salaries. I also assume marketing campaigns for China and Xbox very expensive, which means more money needed.

Yes, PC players from markets where POE originally launched are most likely paying, at least temporarily, for GGG's expansion of their business model.

In addition to business expansion, PoE is constantly developed and maintained, which means money need to be spent doing so. Every expansion will incur development and marketing costs, which need to be harvested from players via microtransactions.

Lastly, PoE being online-only game with dedicated infrastructure maintained/paid by GGG. This means more money are needed as PoE popularity increases and more players join. Free-loaders are welcome but again those that are willing to spend $ on the game must pay for cost GGG incurs from players that play for free.

Ultimately, I do not give a flying fuck whether stash tabs are considered pay to win or not. I care about the fun and amount of time I spend in PoE. I enjoy every new expansion or challenge league, which are well worth few $ I spend from time to time on microtransactions. Unless there is a subscription fee intorduced in a future, GGG will have to constantly churn out new cosmetic MTX and create other ways to pull money from players, which will include creation of new tabs. If you enjoy the game, buy some shit. If you dont enjoy it, move on and dont spend anymore $ on PoE.

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Baron01 wrote:

<explanation that companies make monies>

Free-loaders are welcome but again those that are willing to spend $ on the game must pay for cost GGG incurs from players that play for free.

Ultimately, I do not give a flying fuck whether stash tabs are considered pay to win or not. I care about the fun and amount of time I spend in PoE. I enjoy every new expansion or challenge league, which are well worth few $ I spend from time to time on microtransactions. Unless there is a subscription fee intorduced in a future, GGG will have to constantly churn out new cosmetic MTX and create other ways to pull money from players, which will include creation of new tabs. If you enjoy the game, buy some shit. If you dont enjoy it, move on and dont spend anymore $ on PoE.

You see, this is the problem. They aren't so welcome anymore. The more annoyances you throw at them, the less welcome they are (and likely to keep playing).

And, if you do not give a flying fuck whether stash tabs are considered pay to win, why are you taking part in discussion about that very topic? To tell us that GGG needs to make money? Sure, ok, thanks, but we knew that from the very beginning. We're not saying GGG shouldn't be making money - that is absurd. Because, if not that, I'm unsure what you are trying to tell us, or suggesting what we're thinking.

Once again - GGG was able to do it before, selling very few things. Now, they have far bigger audience (which means far more people willing to buy things - this is usually a % of all players, more or less).
Are you trying to tell me they can't cut it anymore, with all people playing now? With the lootboxes and whatnot?
And how is even China expansion even an argument FOR them having to make more money? They're making money because they expanded to China - not the other way around. If they were expanding to China and would have to spend money and get nothing back, they'd be idiots. They aren't.

But one thing you pointed out is correct. They expanded their development process. And while this is a good, there might be a point of them expecting to get too much money from it, as for now.
At that point they go thinking that they have to increase the revenue by optimizing player spending (this is how Activision talk about these things, by the way). What may happen, however, is that people will simply stop playing. Not all at once, but over time, slowly bleeding out, while GGG applies band-aids to fix the situation (this usually means more paid stuff, to the point game stops being playable - I've seen enough examples of that, sadly).
And this is what we're afraid of.

Considering some economic factors, like inflation, job competition on NZ, i find releasing more expensive stuff every year as understandable.
Conversion for F2P titles is around what? 0.1% of players spend money? I think PoE is having a bit better numbers than that,but statistically speaking, they don't want to overestimate potential revenue for expansion to new markets.

Having 40 tabs historically i find the Map tab still useful for the money, fragment tab i don't find useful at all.

You have to spent money to make money. ROI for China expansion could be high if done well, and right now, i think GiGiGi is doing quite well (even if they are breaking game every 3 months into different shape).