The catalan independence vote and what is going down there; the shape of things to come?
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The secession state and the rest of the country both need to agree to the secession. If not, doing it unilaterally is an act of rebellion, and they could end up in a civil war.
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Majority of Catalans are against, those who went to votes despite Madrid forbidding the event are of course mostly for the secession. Note that the leader of catalonia independence was to loose the next regional election against the pro-MAdrid and this is why he rushed an outlawed referendum.
Sure Madrid sending troops there was a big mistake because first the only one voting was pro independence giving them a fake winning result and also because of the media image it showed to the world. Forum pvp
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"I don't know about that. Catalan independence has been an issue within Spanish politics for over a decade. The previous President of the Generalitat of Catalonia, Artur Mas (from 2010 to 2016), was pro-independence but considerably more moderate about it than the current President, Carles Puigdemont. Mas also attempted to hold multiple Catalan votes for independence, but (unlike Puigdemont) made such votes increasingly informal and powerless under pressure from the Spanish government, such that voters would not be persecuted. The results were higher turnout and consistent majority support for independence, but without any binding resolution. (The informal nature of such voting may have slightly skewed results towards independence, as "remainers" had only optics-related reasons to participate.) Mas' moderate nature despite a seemingly clear mandate from the people (from some perspectives, anyway) made him vulnerable to more hardline successionists such as Puigdemont, who replaced Mas and was then compelled to take a stance defending the formality of the vote due to pressure from his base (. You could say Mas has developed a reputation akin to the American "cuckservative" and October 1st was Puigdemont's equivalent of "The Wall."  Current Catalan parliament. Green and yellow represent parties with Catalan independence explicitly on their party platform. Yellow = pro-independence, far left (hippies) Green = pro-independence, varying left-right affiliation Purple = independence-neutral, center-left Red = anti-independence, far left (globalist socialism) Blue = anti-independence, center-right You're correct that Puigdemont was under pressure to hold the vote before attempting to get reelected. You're also correct that Spain declaring the vote not merely informal but punitively illegal probably effected turnout in a way that skewed results towards Catalan independence, especially after news broke of police raids, etc. You might even be correct that Puigdemont's hardline stance has led him to become unpopular and given fuel to pro-Madrid political movements. However, you're giving insufficient respect to the populist groundswell behind the independence movement and, more importantly, a long-standing history of antidemocratic intimidation from the Spanish government that has only recently become violent enough for places like this forum to finally notice. When Stephen Colbert was killed by HYDRA's Project Insight in 2014, the comedy world lost a hero. Since his life model decoy isn't up to the task, please do not mistake my performance as political discussion. I'm just doing what Steve would have wanted. Last edited by ScrotieMcB on Oct 7, 2017, 11:21:09 AM
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No replies arguing against me? Lol rekt
When Stephen Colbert was killed by HYDRA's Project Insight in 2014, the comedy world lost a hero. Since his life model decoy isn't up to the task, please do not mistake my performance as political discussion. I'm just doing what Steve would have wanted.
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" I don't think that is the crux of the matter. Catalans want to leave and Spain don't let them. It is against their constitution. It is similar to China and its "One-china policy", there is no option to leave. Separation is illegal. |
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GGG banning all political discussion shortly after getting acquired by China is a weird coincidence.
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" The argument is over whether it should be or not. Legality isn't morality. What is the justification for holding people against their will when they've made it clear they don't want to be involved any more? | |
" Is this about moral? Legality isn't morality. The laws need not be moral. Do you Remember the US citizen that got imprison by stealing N. Korea flag? Last edited by deathflower on Oct 8, 2017, 2:09:58 AM
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" No need to make a pissing contest over 2 millions of fools who will be absorbed by the new khalifa of Catalonia the second they are independents. "Catalonia has been the main hub of jihadist recruitment in Spain for more than a decade and radical Islamists consider it to be occupied land that should be part of a future Islamic caliphate. The region is home to approximately 510,000 Muslims, more than a quarter of the total number in Spain, according to a demographic study by the Union of Islamic Communities of Spain" “The Catalan province, especially the area surrounding Tarragona , have been a Salafi hotbed for years, and one of the reasons is that it houses the highest numbers of Salafist mosques in Europe,” said Lorenzo Vidino, director of a program on extremism at George Washington University and author of a study on Salafism in Catalonia." "Rita Katz, director of the SITE Intelligence Group, which monitors radical Islam, said on Twitter two weeks ago that a pro-ISIS Twitter account had threatened to “reconquer Al-Andalus” and promised an “imminent attack” in Spain. “Fire in Al-Andalus,” proclaimed one of those tweets, although it is not clear if there is a relationship between that threat and what happened Thursday in Barcelona." Poe Pvp experience https://youtu.be/Z6eg3aB_V1g?t=302 Last edited by Head_Less on Oct 8, 2017, 3:36:55 AM
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"2 million? The population of Catalonia is a little over 7.5 million, so only 1 in 15 Catalans are Muslim. Since the population of Spain is 46.6 million, Catalans overall represent a sixth of the Spanish population. Having a quarter of Spain's Muslims is disproportionate but not outrageously so; if the Muslims were evenly distributed throughout Spain by overall population, 2/3s of Catalonia's Muslims would still be there. None of this is a valid argument against independence. When Stephen Colbert was killed by HYDRA's Project Insight in 2014, the comedy world lost a hero. Since his life model decoy isn't up to the task, please do not mistake my performance as political discussion. I'm just doing what Steve would have wanted. Last edited by ScrotieMcB on Oct 8, 2017, 10:03:56 AM
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