Fortify

Movement skills shouldn't be so fundamentally varying in power as they are now, with the topmost scaling of it being beyond what is desireable for game balance, but they shouldn't be set to levels that feels like they are sucky to use.

Anyway, as for the nemesis mod that spawns an orb that homes on you and hits harder the longer it travels - in one fel swoop you'd add a massive danger to rushers and offscreen killing builds. Oh it could be glorious if done right. The new ranged volatile with potential to be even nastier. Requires player interaction to deal with, and you can actually see what happens with time to react, rather than close eyes and roll across maps not paying attention and if unlucky get oneshot.

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goetzjam wrote:

The first step is admitting there is a problem.

And that is the problem; in their eyes there is no problem. There are SO many ridiculously simple "solution" (read: improvements) to this "problem", and the fact that they don't speak of any of them, is a clear sign that Fortify "is working as intended".

1) Remove the gem, and add the mechanic to certain melee skills
2) Up the requirements considerably
3) Reduce the duration considerably, and make any attack increase/refresh the duration
4) Link the effect of fortify to accuracy.
5) Make it "stackable", increasing effect for every consecutive attack
6) Add a global "50% LESS spell damage" on Fortify
7) "You are silenced while you have fortify" <-- A bit much, maybe

None of those "suggestions" are perfect, but I think all of them would help the situation. I don't think removing Fortify from movement skills is the solution. I very much like the idea of an initiation skill (WB, SC, LS) where you move into packs and go "ham".

Thematically I dont think it should be about which skill is used. If a 'mage' with a dagger suddenly starts swinging that dagger vs an enemy instead of swinging it to cast a spell - why should that mage then turn into a 'fighter'?

So I neither like 'fortify' concept itself nor linking it to specific "melee" skills.

The point is if the mage runs into melee, hes also exposing himself to the melee risk which is why it's fair to give him few seconds for doing that.

Decouple fortify from movement skills and suddenly it won't make much sense to get in on casters.. why would you run into them and start melee in the clearspeed meta when its safer and faster to stay at range.

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Crackmonster wrote:

The point is if the mage runs into melee, hes also exposing himself to the melee risk which is why it's fair to give him few seconds for doing that.

I was looking at it from a thematic POV. A melee fighter trained for melee battle vs a mage trained for ranged spell casting. Put both in the same melee situation and they perform (defensively) equally well. That doesnt make sense to me.
Whether its 'fair' (whatever you mean with that) or not is another matter.

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Crackmonster wrote:

Decouple fortify from movement skills and suddenly it won't make much sense to get in on casters.. why would you run into them and start melee in the clearspeed meta when its safer and faster to stay at range.

You do have to get close to some mob to get fortify. I have also used Frenzy + fortify on totem build. And Vigilant Strike on archer build. So for me removing it from movement skills wouldnt fix "the problem". It needs a proper rework. Most melee builds dont even have 'fortify' in their attack link. If you remove it from move skill the melee build looses the fortify too. Which would make melee builds weaker while doing nothing to archer builds.

Properly constructed builds do use fortify in their attacks only epeen tooltip max dps'ers don't. Getting enough damage is not a problem for melee. Permanent fortify is always to be preferred - you are introducing weakness and a chance to die by not having it in your main link.

Either way it is a moot point on several levels, because melee skills should be balanced around it already - and in the worst case they could give it a more damage multiplier to make sense or bake it into melee phys, they could also with mentioned movement skills changing damage source be baked directly into all melee skills. But it seems to be the GGG way to artificially inflate choices so you have things to mix and match.

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Crackmonster wrote:

Properly constructed builds do use fortify in their attacks only epeen tooltip max dps'ers don't. Getting enough damage is not a problem for melee.

I think you are wrong here. About everything.

It IS a problem for melee to get "enough" damage - with Fortify in main link AND without double dipping nonsense. Especially going RT. Using Fortify in Leap Slam/Whirling Blades/Shield Charge is in my eyes the best option overall.

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Crackmonster wrote:

Properly constructed builds do use fortify in their attacks only epeen tooltip max dps'ers don't.

I dont agree. Doesnt make sense to me either. You are better off spending damage points on defense instead of using weak 'Fortify' link. If you want 'permanent' fortify you can use Vigilant Strike.

Note that I am not saying that there is no build for which it makes sense to put 'fortify' into the main link. But your statement implying that "properly constructed builds" use fortify in main link is false. And if you mean sth other than main link with "attacks" then I dont see the point of making the statement in the first place - movement skills are also "attacks". Some melee builds even use them as such.


Edit: typo

Certain movement skills themselves need a hard look tbh. Zipping around the map with Whirling Blades or Leap slap. It is stupid how fast you can get around with those. Adding fortify to that. I suspect that new one will have similar brokenness.

Regarding Leap Slam and Whirling Blades, movement skills should mainly be used for getting out of a tight spot, or in cases like LS, Blink Arrow, Lightning Warp, and to a lesser extent, Flame Dash, getting over ledge/crossing gaps. I think LS and WB should either have charges like FD, cast time like LW, or a cooldown time like BA.

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Questionable_Xebra wrote:

Certain movement skills themselves need a hard look tbh. Zipping around the map with Whirling Blades or Leap slap. It is stupid how fast you can get around with those. Adding fortify to that. I suspect that new one will have similar brokenness.

Regarding Leap Slam and Whirling Blades, movement skills should mainly be used for getting out of a tight spot, or in cases like LS, Blink Arrow, Lightning Warp, and to a lesser extent, Flame Dash, getting over ledge/crossing gaps. I think LS and WB should either have charges like FD, cast time like LW, or a cooldown time like BA.

I am curious as to why you dont mention Shield Charge?

About WB: Before thinking about charges they should first fix it: https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1898785