poe.trade needs major fixs or gone

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The_Reporter wrote:

Sorry. OP. GGG doesn't have and doesn't want any control over what happens on that website. The day they do, is the day PoE dies.

Similar post above by someone else (I think).

That is partly wrong. They don't want any control, this one is probably right. They do have, though. The stash tab API was designed for poe.trade. They could change it any time so poe.trade wouldn't work anymore. They could probably also change the trade forums in a way that they can't be indexed anymore.

But they probably don't want to, because too many people trade and the alternative to poe.trade is trade chat, which is a nightmare (or so I've heard).

What are you talking about? poe.trade is absolutely amazing. It's flawless!

Let me explain to you why the d3 ah didnt work. It wasn't the rtm it was the bots who ended up controlling the whole thing. You can whine and say thats a bot problem not an ah problem but they are inherently linked. If you make an ah system slower with lots of checks and captcha people would complain that trading is to slow and it was faster then they used poe.trade. You are worried about price manipulation, the ENTIRE market on d3 was being manipulated by people who didn't play the game, just set their bot scrips up to nail any item posed below a price threshold with certain stats. An auction house in unnecessary in an arpg, we have gone far to close to an ah with our current system. I left for a few months and came back for the last two months of ah in d3, if you didn't put in real money you would never have been able to afford it. And if real money wasn't a part of the system it would have been set behind unreasonable pay walls. Imagine every useful item in the game being bought at 5 ex and repriced to 100 ex. That is an auction house. for an ah to work you need bound items to keep the numbers of each item down on the market. then you are either benefiting from the stats boost or the increase in cash flow.

Wow type ah with a mailbox would be awesome, having to wait around to try to find that one buyer for something is just a huge hassle. D3 failed because of terribly designed rmah that had people buying 30 copies and running sophisticated setups not normally seen in a game like this. The bugs were just silly, like a client side clock that allowed people to buy shit and just reset there clock to dupe gold essentially.

Then again, maybe they got exactly what they wanted. A quick cash grab at the cost of destroying the brand. Anyone anticipating d4?

Games shouldn't have something so delicate like economy bound to 3rd party websites

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coldmetal0 wrote:

Let me explain to you why the d3 ah didnt work. It wasn't the rtm it was the bots who ended up controlling the whole thing. You can whine and say thats a bot problem not an ah problem but they are inherently linked. If you make an ah system slower with lots of checks and captcha people would complain that trading is to slow and it was faster then they used poe.trade. You are worried about price manipulation, the ENTIRE market on d3 was being manipulated by people who didn't play the game, just set their bot scrips up to nail any item posed below a price threshold with certain stats. An auction house in unnecessary in an arpg, we have gone far to close to an ah with our current system. I left for a few months and came back for the last two months of ah in d3, if you didn't put in real money you would never have been able to afford it. And if real money wasn't a part of the system it would have been set behind unreasonable pay walls. Imagine every useful item in the game being bought at 5 ex and repriced to 100 ex. That is an auction house. for an ah to work you need bound items to keep the numbers of each item down on the market. then you are either benefiting from the stats boost or the increase in cash flow.

You must not be aware of all the bots price fixing and exploiting poe.trade.

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Mikrotherion wrote:

Similar post above by someone else (I think).

That is partly wrong. They don't want any control, this one is probably right. They do have, though. The stash tab API was designed for poe.trade. They could change it any time so poe.trade wouldn't work anymore. They could probably also change the trade forums in a way that they can't be indexed anymore.

But they probably don't want to, because too many people trade and the alternative to poe.trade is trade chat, which is a nightmare (or so I've heard).

They didn't add the API to make it more user friendly. They added the API because the websites forum scrapers were raping the servers.

They did it out of necessity, not convenience.

The reason that poe.trade is bad for the economy is simple, and it's due to the same reason D3 AH was borked.

When you wanted to upgrade your item, you basically ran a search, sorted by the stat that's important to you, then started at the top of the list with the highest of that stat, moving down to what you could afford.

Leaving literally thousands of offers not even looked at and left to be given away for next to nothing.

Same thing with Poe Trade. I do my sorts, start with the highest, move down the list until I hit what I can afford.

What happens to all the other less than perfect items? Nothing. The people with those less than perfect items get from poe trade? Nothing.

There's no middle ground.

Now if you only saw someone advertising what was better than you have, and happen to come across that in trade chat, you are not in a position to bypass that offer in lieu of another one.

More importantly, someone that is out for the sole purpose of cornering markets on hot items would have a much much harder time doing so.

The dilemma is making trade convenient and easy, but not convenient and easy for bots and flippers.

Having a little wall street style graph of cost trends would help suss out low ballers and price manipulators, also having a way for them to commit an item to a trade offer and having to stick to that trade offer would help alleviate some of it.

It's not an easy issue and doesn't have an easy fix.

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CloudedInSanity33 wrote:

D3 had an auction house. It didn't work.

It worked very well to be honest. The very rare items became accessible in their budget versions, while the top rolls stayed with the hardcore gamers and their wealth.

It also gave everyone a chance to trade, unlike at POE where only hardcore gamers trade, as they don´t mind using external providers and wasting a lot of time in the process.

Every successful online game, has an AH and if POE want´s to limit trading then this is fine, but it should be accessible for everyone, else it becomes a P2W feature like it currently is.

GGG could add a currency for trading, something that we must find in game and with every trade we do, we must hand in one of those items. Make them as rare as chaos orbs and limit the amount of trade we can do each week to 10.

No more bots and no more item flipping!

Btw.

the issue with D3 were the exploits and dupes. Streamers abused those things for week before Blizzard fixed it, so that those streamers had the best gear in the game and therefore ruined the AH with their prices and item flipping tactics.

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Imurgod wrote:

This is to prevent script runners posting 100s of intentionally-made cheap item so they can force other sellers to sell at their "price" then scoop all items up below market price

what's bad about fake sellers?

everybody looking for the item the fake seller is targeting at can buy it cheaper if there are newbs falling for that trick?

second: for those not falling for the trick, fake sellers have the important function to obfuscate the lowest prices for items which sellers normally look up to underbid their competition and fast sell. which results in higher prices on average and stops item price deflation.

the worst economy is if every item with certain stats has a fixed price you "have to work for" and nobody can make a deal or bargain.

if fake sellers didn't exist, ggg could run them or implement a similar mechanism.

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CloudedInSanity33 wrote:

D3 had an auction house. It didn't work.

It didn't work mainly due to currency inflation and gear inflation. POE inherently has a system to reduce currency inflation, and gear inflation is reset after every league.

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ewolow wrote:

They didn't add the API to make it more user friendly. They added the API because the websites forum scrapers were raping the servers.

They did it out of necessity, not convenience.

The reason that poe.trade is bad for the economy is simple, and it's due to the same reason D3 AH was borked.

When you wanted to upgrade your item, you basically ran a search, sorted by the stat that's important to you, then started at the top of the list with the highest of that stat, moving down to what you could afford.

Leaving literally thousands of offers not even looked at and left to be given away for next to nothing.

Same thing with Poe Trade. I do my sorts, start with the highest, move down the list until I hit what I can afford.

What happens to all the other less than perfect items? Nothing. The people with those less than perfect items get from poe trade? Nothing.

There's no middle ground.

Now if you only saw someone advertising what was better than you have, and happen to come across that in trade chat, you are not in a position to bypass that offer in lieu of another one.

More importantly, someone that is out for the sole purpose of cornering markets on hot items would have a much much harder time doing so.

The dilemma is making trade convenient and easy, but not convenient and easy for bots and flippers.

Having a little wall street style graph of cost trends would help suss out low ballers and price manipulators, also having a way for them to commit an item to a trade offer and having to stick to that trade offer would help alleviate some of it.

It's not an easy issue and doesn't have an easy fix.

I see what you are saying, but there is a flaw in your logic:

The current game balance at end game revolves around gear being central in build planning. This makes trading central to the overall gameplay experience.

GGG has put themselves in a bizarre situation. They balance towards uber builds, yet don't want to control the trading system. They either have to make all of the content playable as solo self found, or take control of the trading system so that GGG has full control over the game play experience. Not having control over a core component to gameplay is essentially Russian roulette. I have never seen an instance where a developer didn't want control over a mechanic so paramount to the overall player experience. It is mind blowing really.