[3.8] Shaper = Stunned, Tidebreaker Heavy Strike Stunner Build

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Zoda_Jones wrote:
Hi!

Been following your build for a number of patches now and I'm a fan. Never tried to copy it though, but I just happened to stumble upon a Fortify corrupted Tidebreaker this league, and it keeps me thinking :)

So... I'm trying to build around Vengeance with pretty much everything, as I love Insobyr's POTCG vengeance build a lot, and I started wondering... Could the self procced Vengeance setup of his build work for Tidebreaker? I'm not used to crunching numbers in POB, so I figured I'd ask you. Idea would be to go crit (slayer/Berzerker/jugg all have their merits), so we can ignite on crits and with Eye of Innocence hit ourselves, and use cyclone so we can proc Vengeance on cooldown (with max rolls of cooldown recovery boots/belt + helm enchant, vengeance cooldown is 0.7s, with only helm, it's 0.92). Veangeance has a giant chunk of added physical damage and a good multiplier too, and we can link it with Stun support 24/7 as it's not the main/only source of damage output.

The whole thing is pointless though, if I can't stunlock shaper, so I'm here for advice. Is it doable?

Slayer has the most reliable crits, Zerker the biggest hits and Jugg the longest stuns (and doesn't require investments in accuracy)

Setup would look something like this:
Spoiler
Tidebreaker (fortify + endurance charge on stun):
Cyclone - MPD - Pulverize - Infused Channeling - Chance to Bleed - increased crit/conc effect/inc aoe
(can't link it with Brutality, else I won't be able to ignite, chance to bleed can be dropped if we have access to bleed elsewhere)

6 link chest (with maim support):
Vengeance - Bloodluse - Brutality - MPD - Stun - Ruthless/Endurance Charge on Stun

Abyssuss should be easily managable too with everything stunned, and endurance charges stacked up, I actually just picked a Vengeance enchanted one up after thinking about it

There is no real need to focus on crit chance/damage beyond the point where Vengeance procs are reliable. I wouldn't want to be overly focused on DPS aspect, I just want to see if I can stunlock endgame bosses while cycloning.


Thanks in advance, if you find the time to answer :)

EDIT: after looking more into it, it looks possible, probably jugg is the easiest way to do it.

It's an interesting idea. We can first talk about viability, and then evaluate the opportunity cost.

Viability:
Spoiler

Vengeance has a 40% trigger rate, we can do around 9 hits/sec w/ Cyclone (maybe more w/ Jugg, and less if you have to invest into crit). If you achieve 40% crit chance, the average trigger time for Vengeance is 0.7 seconds. Note that it's the average, with 0.92 seconds of cooldown (with helm enchant only), the average will be dragged down due to the fact that you will be wasting triggers while it's on cooldown. So, it will take on average more than 0.92 + 0.7 = 1.62 seconds for continuous triggers.

Then w/ 80% crit chance, you get 0.92 + 0.35 = 1.27 seconds. It's not significantly faster than the 40% crit chance case, and stacking crit is really difficult w/ Tidebreaker's low base crit chance, which probably means around 40% crit chance is more reasonable.

And what's the damage? With pure PoB data, which is very faulty, Heavy Strike does 2M DPS (after accounting for the double damage that's not calculated in PoB, it goes up to maybe 2.3M), Cyclone does 1M, and Vengeance does 250k per hit (w/ Stun Support). With 1.62 seconds per trigger, Vengeance deals around 150k DPS.

So, we need to account for the fact that going crit boosts up our DPS, but Vengeance is probably not going to contribute a big portion of that.

And can you Stun Shaper with Vengeance? Assume 170% r.E.S.T., you need around 500k damage per hit to have 100% stun chance, and 100k to have 20% stun chance. I am seeing 250k average, which means, if a hit has 2 of the following: high damage roll, crit, Ruthless strike - then it can have a high chance of stunning.

But then we have to worry about stun duration. With moderate investment into stun duration, you can probably stun 2.5 seconds w/ Ruthless strike, and 1.1 seconds otherwise. This means, w/ this level of investment, you need to stun on every single hit to stun-lock Shaper, which requires twice the damage; or, w/ the current level of stun chances, you need at least +200% stun duration more than I have right now.

The calculations above is a bit flawed because I didn't take account of the damage boost due to going crit, but you will need to make huge investments into stun duration while investing a lot into crit at the same time.

Cost:
Spoiler

1. Having to use rare chest w/ Maim Support and Eye of Innocence instead of Kaom's and a rare amulet. I think you would lose 1000 max life for this.

2. Having to leave out Brutality Support on Cyclone, (or potentially use Chance to Bleed or Inc. Crit). This will cut our Cyclone damage.

3. Having to have Vengeance helm enchant. Potentially use cooldown belt / boots, but I don't think it's worth it.

4. Having to go crit and build up crit chance. To use Abyssus to boost crit multi has this 40% increased physical damage taken. If I am not mistaken, this 40% interacts additively w/ Fortify and other sources of reduced damage taken. My Slayer currently has over 40% reduced damage taken, so Abyssus would mean taking 100% physical damage instead of 60% - in other words, 67% more physical damage taken.

5. Huge stun duration investments if you want to stun-lock Shaper.

So what's my conclusion?

1. Can this variant stun-lock Shaper? With heavy investment, yes.

2. Is this going to be a good variant for an average player? No.

3. Can you have fun w/ this variant? With a high budget, yes; otherwise, I imagine you will have problems w/ your defense.

And what would be my suggestion:

I think if you want to pull out this combo, it's still better to use Heavy Strike to stun-lock Shaper and other endgame bosses if you need to (unless you just want to stun-lock w/ Vengeance). Vengeance is not a strong candidate for boss stunning, and could be more useful as a form of passive defense, especially when you're lagging. The whole build would be more well-rounded if you do so and not have to invest into crit chance / stun duration that much.
Thank you for the in depth answer! Much appreciated.

I knew it would require an unreasonable amount of investment, just wanted to see its viability.

A rare shaped maul with shaped REST mod is probably a better weapon than tidebreak for such a build, but I doubt anyone is in the business of crafting such a thing.

Anyways, I at least made some profit flipping a vengeance enchanted abyssus ☺
hey brightwaha, just noticed your outrageous 8 link tidebreaker. howd ya manage that?! luxury upgrades!

also may want to note that tidebreaker div card for league starts/jewels boon for an easy 5 link tidebreaker (both are super cheap week 1) which lets u support HS with 5+ endurance charge on stun for easy shaper kills early

EDIT: also, thought on kinetic impact nodes? 4% double dmg, stun duration and 12/12/12/24% increased attack, seems better than wrecking ball near fort nodes
Last edited by frawrst on Aug 9, 2019, 3:43:39 PM
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frawrst wrote:
hey brightwaha, just noticed your outrageous 8 link tidebreaker. howd ya manage that?! luxury upgrades!

also may want to note that tidebreaker div card for league starts/jewels boon for an easy 5 link tidebreaker (both are super cheap week 1) which lets u support HS with 5+ endurance charge on stun for easy shaper kills early

EDIT: also, thought on kinetic impact nodes? 4% double dmg, stun duration and 12/12/12/24% increased attack, seems better than wrecking ball near fort nodes

I bought this corrupted Tidebreaker non-linked for like 30 chaos. Then I used the crafting bench to 6 link it. This was a long time ago. I tried to corrupt some of my own but I haven't had any luck with it. If anyone wants one, the best
to do is to watch the market; there have been quite a number of Fortify corrupted Tidebreakers in the market this league, I believe.

I don't like Kinetic Impact. 4% double damage is nice, stun duration and r.E.S.T. are nice as well, but I don't think the power level of this cluster is high enough to justify picking it - unless you're doing Shaper with a 5link, and you desperately need more stun capabilities.

Wrecking Ball is also very mediocre. My own Slayer in Legion isn't picking it despite of being lvl 100. But unlike Kinetic Impact, Wrecking Ball has one merit: it offers attack speed. In cases when one uses Leap Slam very often, having additional attack speed really boosts mobility and thus mapping speed.
Hi Bright

end of league all things are really good. As i try to get all my challenges myself it went not so well this league. But i hope i can do 30.

Fot that i have 2 questions.

first why did you prefere the devotos over the starkonia? the bigest differenz i see is i give 100 life for 6 % attack speed. The movement speed didnt affect me really since mostly move with leap slam.

So 100 life for 6 % as. Is as such a worthy mod to give the life for it ?

next is i cant kill all member of one fraction for the archivement. Is there a trick to do so ? or did i need help for it ?

The last. What did the legion jewel you have in your tree? if i take one with same name and only the number is different, it give me 4 % more life and stun duration. Is that what yours did? I saw in videos jewel with 80 % more dmg. what is the best a jewel can give for this build life is always good and then. attack speed, stun ? dmg? stun duration?

thanks for help and the really nice build.
"
Hi Bright

end of league all things are really good. As i try to get all my challenges myself it went not so well this league. But i hope i can do 30.

Fot that i have 2 questions.

first why did you prefere the devotos over the starkonia? the bigest differenz i see is i give 100 life for 6 % attack speed. The movement speed didnt affect me really since mostly move with leap slam.

So 100 life for 6 % as. Is as such a worthy mod to give the life for it ?

next is i cant kill all member of one fraction for the archivement. Is there a trick to do so ? or did i need help for it ?

The last. What did the legion jewel you have in your tree? if i take one with same name and only the number is different, it give me 4 % more life and stun duration. Is that what yours did? I saw in videos jewel with 80 % more dmg. what is the best a jewel can give for this build life is always good and then. attack speed, stun ? dmg? stun duration?

thanks for help and the really nice build.

Starkonja is a good choice, as well as Devoto's. I find the movement speed from Devoto's quite useful, but you can certainly justify using Starkonja over Devoto's if you find yourself using Leap Slam all the time. I don't think there is a clear winner here.

6% atk spd is worth around 30 flat life as I see it, so it's not too much about the atk spd.

I have 2 Legion jewels, I think I spent like around 5 divines on them so they are not difficult to obtain at all. One of them has +118 strength (2x +20 strength rolls), 40% increased damage, and 10% r.E.S.T.; the other one has +78 strength (no strength rolls), +20% increased effect of fortify, 2% life regen, 20% fire res, and 20% increased damage.

You can look at the wiki page and see the full list of mods, basically Fortify effect, double damage, max life, melee/physical damage, r.E.S.T. and 5% increased strength are the better ones. Intimidate is good as well if you don't have other sources of Intimidate.

Attack speed is not in the pool of possible mods for Lethal Pride, and stun duration is pretty useless now considering stun-locking Shaper is kind of trivial with this build already.
Was 4 days on holiday. Therefore now the answer

Thanks a lot for the great answer. so i use some devines if the stun duration isnt helpful.
hi bright

got this amulet is it worth to multimod it as you dont say anything about this mod in your guide
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hi bright

got this amulet is it worth to multimod it as you dont say anything about this mod in your guide


Well, assuming 600 strength you get 40% increased damage out of it. It's kind of nice but definitely not worth multi-modding for this build.
hey brightwaha

just wanted to say thanks and much love for all your work and help with this arch type

this build was buffed so much in 3.7, we can almost skip the stun nodes and do insane dps while still getting ruthless stuns

i made another meme video, i think Ground Slam is excellent in 3.7 (but cyclone still king)

here is to more stuns in 3.8

https://youtu.be/qdzrMfT0Ovw

<3

EDIT: also followed in your footsteps for 8link Tide ^^

Last edited by frawrst on Aug 20, 2019, 3:31:40 PM

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