Maybe u should look at OP Ascendacy Classes instead of declaring war on Phys dmg/VP/ES, GGG...

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allbusiness wrote:


No one is going to play melee because it clears slow as shit compared to a even basic Vaal Spark build. ES builds are in vogue because they are extremely point efficient, and even though they stress your gear in terms of capping out resists, etc. they are still king of clear speed because you can invest minimal amounts into defense (sometimes less than 30 points on your tree if you're going glass cannon), and everything else goes into offense while still maintaining a large buffer that works against everything.

When you make your game economic centric, people will be forced into playing clear speed meta for that very exact reason. It's more economically sound to just go pew pew es glass cannon and insta life leech then it is to carefully balance out say a Block Gladiator with difference pieces of gear. Alkazier made a 1h crit Gladiator work, and I was playing a Varunastra Gladiator for awhile in Breach before I simply got bored because of how slow it was compared to any other ES character. I will never clear as fast as Pizza Blast Totems, Blade Flurry Crit ES, especially when you consider the gear cost. For tier 1 ES gear it's expensive, but for tier 3 ES gear, which is more than enough for pretty much 99.9% of the game, it's extremely cheap. Compare that to Alkaizer's Gladiator Crit build that was probably the most well built life melee character that league. He has extremely specific, and extremely expensively rolled gear that cost truckloads of currency.

This is what happens when you balance your game around trade, people will find the most efficient way to trade and make money, and constantly do that. What is the most efficient thing to do? Clear maps as FAST as possible.


Most players will play OP builds regardless whether game is multiplayer or not. In GD, you can play selffound (and most players do that). Still, lots of them started to play 1-h+shield Witchblade when he was buffed insanely in 1.0.0.5. Game developers should care about nerfing OP stuff and buffing UP stuff, not players, sorry.

As for Ascendancies, the only real junk one is Ascendant. All others could be OK, if game was actually balanced better. ATM, it's just supersonic racing with oneshotting everything in 0.3 seconds. Classes, that support this playstyle, OP skills, OP defences (ES), etc - are very popular, while others are dumpstered.
IGN: MortalKombat
Molten Strike build guide: https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1346504

There is no knowledge
That is not power
Last edited by MortalKombat3#6961 on Feb 26, 2017, 4:30:32 PM
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MortalKombat3 wrote:
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allbusiness wrote:


No one is going to play melee because it clears slow as shit compared to a even basic Vaal Spark build. ES builds are in vogue because they are extremely point efficient, and even though they stress your gear in terms of capping out resists, etc. they are still king of clear speed because you can invest minimal amounts into defense (sometimes less than 30 points on your tree if you're going glass cannon), and everything else goes into offense while still maintaining a large buffer that works against everything.

When you make your game economic centric, people will be forced into playing clear speed meta for that very exact reason. It's more economically sound to just go pew pew es glass cannon and insta life leech then it is to carefully balance out say a Block Gladiator with difference pieces of gear. Alkazier made a 1h crit Gladiator work, and I was playing a Varunastra Gladiator for awhile in Breach before I simply got bored because of how slow it was compared to any other ES character. I will never clear as fast as Pizza Blast Totems, Blade Flurry Crit ES, especially when you consider the gear cost. For tier 1 ES gear it's expensive, but for tier 3 ES gear, which is more than enough for pretty much 99.9% of the game, it's extremely cheap. Compare that to Alkaizer's Gladiator Crit build that was probably the most well built life melee character that league. He has extremely specific, and extremely expensively rolled gear that cost truckloads of currency.

This is what happens when you balance your game around trade, people will find the most efficient way to trade and make money, and constantly do that. What is the most efficient thing to do? Clear maps as FAST as possible.


Most players will play OP builds regardless whether game is multiplayer or not. In GD, you can play selffound (and most players do that). Still, lots of them started to play 1-h+shield Witchblade when he was buffed insanely in 1.0.0.5. Game developers should care about nerfing OP stuff and buffing UP stuff, not players, sorry.

As for Ascendancies, the only real junk one is Ascendant. All others could be OK, if game was actually balanced better. ATM, it's just supersonic racing with oneshotting everything in 0.3 seconds. Classes, that support this playstyle, OP skills, OP defences (ES), etc - are very popular, while others are dumpstered.




My point is that there is no reason to play a defensive based style character because the entire game revolves around clear speed, even uber lab which is the 'alternative' to maps. Bosses are mechanical fights in that you can literally do the bosses with 1 hp, so it comes down to practice and having enough hp to soak a hit or two to reposition, and dumping everything else into offense. The defensive mechanic that benefits from this the most is ES, and it always has.

If there was a less incentive to clear speed as fast as possible, you'd have better build variety represented at the top. Grim Dawn is a very good example of this, yeah you can play OP builds, but it's not like it's the only thing that can do the top end content. GD is a relatively 'easy' game, yet it is still a well designed and very fun game at the end of the day.
Last edited by allbusiness#6050 on Feb 26, 2017, 5:27:16 PM
fixing the core problem alone affects the balance between classes big time.
ie double dipping.

so measuring the balance according to the current state of the game is not the way.

bf too op, ci too op , double dipping too op. once many of those issues are addressed, then we can see better picture
Last edited by Dudebag#0222 on Feb 26, 2017, 7:41:36 PM
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allbusiness wrote:

My point is that there is no reason to play a defensive based style character because the entire game revolves around clear speed, even uber lab which is the 'alternative' to maps. Bosses are mechanical fights in that you can literally do the bosses with 1 hp, so it comes down to practice and having enough hp to soak a hit or two to reposition, and dumping everything else into offense. The defensive mechanic that benefits from this the most is ES, and it always has.

If there was a less incentive to clear speed as fast as possible, you'd have better build variety represented at the top. Grim Dawn is a very good example of this, yeah you can play OP builds, but it's not like it's the only thing that can do the top end content. GD is a relatively 'easy' game, yet it is still a well designed and very fun game at the end of the day.


Well, clear speed always matters in ARPGs, but PoE clearly brings it to extremes. You're literally forced to "play fast", because if you wont oneshot trash, it may oneshot you as well in high-level maps (playing "slow and tanky" doesnt even make you really tanky). Even HC players still play same "supersonic clearspeed meta", which shouldnt be the case.

Uber Lab, btw, has the largest potential to avoid "clear speed meta". First, if you die even once, you lose a lot of time and your offering. Second, there are traps. And third, lab exploration can bring xtra banafits such as extra key or darkshrines....
The problem is, top-tier ES builds are so tanky, that they simple cant die from Izaro, Argus or trash (though many life builds can do it as well, cause damage is physical).
Since trap damage to ES was reduced, trap arent deadly for ES builds anymore, running though them at insane speed with Basalt is all you need. Maybe, if there were less traps but they were more deadly...
And rewards from Darkshrines could be higher, considering increasing difficulty and time needed to find them.


Now, a bit closer review of Ascendancies:
Necromancer - offering on self is OP (too much block and hp/block for no investment). Aside from that, a classic summoner.
Elementalist - if you dont go crit, you're literally pigeonholed into this class, for elemental status effects. Also, is incredibly powerful if you can abuse 25% resist penetration.
Occultist - class around ES, and ES is the best defence is the game.....

Assassin - offensive class around crits, and lots of crit build choose him because he can reach crit cap and deal very consistent damage. It's very important to always oneshot enemies, not overkill them 60% of the time and deal puny damage otherwise.
Saboteur - class around trap/mines, and those were nerfed some time ago, also they cant leech.
Trickster - cant say much there.

Pathfinder - her movespeed bonuses fits perfectly to "clearspeed meta", and certain OP flasks (Vinktar, ToH) make her OP as well.
Raider - was buffed recently, though i didnt expected her to be so popular.
Deadeye - an offensive projectile class, but why pick her, if you can get Assassin or Pathfinder? She's worse for "clear speed".

Slayer - actually, OP as fuck himself, but sadly, he uses 2-handers, non-instant leech and life. All those are very underpowered in PoE. But if VP/acuity gets removed, and ES nerfed a bit, Slayer will surely became new meta.
Gladiator, Champion - defensive classes (block/fortify), and players dont like those in SC.

Berserker - has overpowered, but kinda unreliable leech, and is life-based...
Juggernaut - cant be slowed, but who cares if you oneshot everything? His OP synergy with Discharge was fixed.
Chieftain - Totem class, and totems are kinda powerful ATM.

Inquisitor - ignoring resistances on crit means incredibly consistent damage, if you capped crit. No to mention how high damage boost it is... That's why he's so popular.
Hierophant - quite complex totem/mana class, though he still can be good.
Guardian - low-life ES and aura-based character, OP as fuck for "clearspeed meta", but may require certain knowledge, skill and good gear to really shine.
IGN: MortalKombat
Molten Strike build guide: https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1346504

There is no knowledge
That is not power
Last edited by MortalKombat3#6961 on Feb 27, 2017, 3:28:54 AM
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Snorkle_uk wrote:
so essentially now we just have the slightly nerfed earthquake as the 1 skill they have and they will probably nerf it again because like cyclone used to it just sticks out like a sore thumb in the barren wasteland that exists where usable skills need to be for the left side.



yep, there it goes, nerfed earthquake....



lol








yep.


Oh I heard there were like 5 guys still playing marauder, how can we fuck them over yet again and make sure they switch to bows or spells?
I love all you people on the forums, we can disagree but still be friends and respect each other :)
"
Snorkle_uk wrote:
"
Snorkle_uk wrote:
so essentially now we just have the slightly nerfed earthquake as the 1 skill they have and they will probably nerf it again because like cyclone used to it just sticks out like a sore thumb in the barren wasteland that exists where usable skills need to be for the left side.



yep, there it goes, nerfed earthquake....



lol








yep.


Oh I heard there were like 5 guys still playing marauder, how can we fuck them over yet again and make sure they switch to bows or spells?


Well, I'll stop playing marauder only when they remove all melee namelocking skills, and everything will become "melee ranged".

The nerf to AoE is almost making me retire my trusty Soul Taker build with Ice Crash as it will have a shameful AoE without relying on a helmet enchant and Dying Sun...

Sad days are ahead for us melee players, and makes you wonder if their idea of balance just like with "Melee Splash" that was supposed to get a buff to radius, will actually nerf the damage boost that 1 handed weapons should be receiving...
PSS: Our almighty TencentGGG overlords are very scrupulous regarding criticizing their abilities to take proper decisions and consider everything "needlessly harsh and condescending"...

Good to know "free speech" doesn't apply in any form or manner on the forums these days...
Last edited by sofocle10000#6408 on Feb 27, 2017, 8:22:57 AM

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