Ascendency points and Oriath (aka remove Labyrinth mandatoriness)

I love lab

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kms1320 wrote:

I love lab

brick do you really love the lab?

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DuckYourHead321 wrote:

While you are right in a sense, you fail to grasp the spirit of what people are saying. Yes you can never ever run a lab. You can just ignore the trials and never deal with any of it, but 8 points and a good enchant are such a MASSIVE amount of power that you HAVE to run it if you dont want half a character.

Sure you can just ignore those optional skill point quests the whole game,but to do so puts you at a severe disadvantage. Why would you do that? You wouldn't even if you hate it. Once you get past a certain point, all this game is about is getting more power. To ignore such power is to decide you don't want to play the game anymore.

Did you even read what I wrote? Because you're responding to an argument that is at best tangential to what I said and completely ignoring my point. It seems you just cut and pasted your stock argument while completely ignoring the post you were responding to.


For reference(since apparently you missed it), Is that 99% of the game "needs" to be completed to progress. To single one area that you, subjectively, dislike as something that needs to be made optional while demanding that every other area that others, subjectively, dislike remain intact is a hypocritical and self-serving argument on its face.

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ClickerPro wrote:

I'd be happy to. Trap lag, disconnects

Problems that exist in literally all maps, this is just a meaningless harp to pad out your list. It's like saying "exalts are too rare"...yeah its how the game works. It happens equally everywhere. Or have you never been disconnected out of a Zana "don't die" map or lagged during an Atziri fight?

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ClickerPro wrote:

16 trials,

...And? It seems you're so far up your own ass that just by listing aspects of lab you somehow think that's an argument. "You have to kill 9 bandits! NINE OF THEM! WHAT IS THIS SHIT?!??!!"

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ClickerPro wrote:

and an annoyingly long dungeon that in no way, shape, or form is fun.

Once again, not an argument. "I don't like it" isn't an argument no matter how much you want it to be for lack of a tangible reason. Being "long" is irrelevant, the whole game is long. Does that make the whole game bad? If you like something and it's long, that's an advantage. So you listing length AS a disadvantage just proves you can't come up with anything real.

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ClickerPro wrote:

The weary traveler is fucking sick of running this terrible dungeon for mandatory ascension points.

And I'm sick of running other terrible dungeons for mandatory progress to PLAY THE GAME. But I have to.

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ClickerPro wrote:

Not one person enjoys the Lab after the 4th time they do it. They did it, it was challenging, was good fun the first couple times, maybe even the second toon. But that's it, it's just long and annoying.

Objectively false. And just repeating the same non-argument of "I don't like it so it's bad." Lab is far better than several other maps in the game.

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ClickerPro wrote:

Every league, you have to do this crap. Then you have to do it on all your alts. It's just tiresome.

Again, this applies to literally every map you don't like that is required to progress through the game. You have to do them on every league on every character. After two paragraphs of whining you've still yet to actually address this main point.

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ClickerPro wrote:

It's too long to be fun,if they added a couple rooms to the first batch and the first fight was the only fight it would be ok. But it's so damn long. I just don't want to do shit that isn't fun and Lab falls squarely into the "Holy fuck, I hate this." category.

No matter how many times you repeat this non-argument it won't suddenly make it relevant. Length amplifies good and bad. So to shorten it minimizes a "problem" instead of addressing it. Where giving an ACTUAL "problem" that could be addressed would then make the overall experience enjoyable regardless of length. This is not a difficult concept to grasp.

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ClickerPro wrote:

And you're bitching about pyramid, and in 3.0 you only have to do it once now. So you won't even mind anymore. Because once is ok. 4 times is not ok.

I'm not bitching, have never mentioned it before. Just providing a counterexample. But thanks for this, because it provides a perfect crystallization of "I am the arbiter of what is okay and not okay and everyone else's opinion is irrelevant." Which was sorta my point to begin with. Different people like different things. And you're demanding the game cater to you and only you and that you decide everything. "Because once is ok. 4 times is not ok." is a dictatorial command with no logic or reason, and the internet equivalent of your parents saying "because I said so." You just state it as if it were a fact, because YOU said it, so it HAS to be true.




Anyone else have an actual argument other than "I don't like it"?

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NessOnett8 wrote:

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DuckYourHead321 wrote:

While you are right in a sense, you fail to grasp the spirit of what people are saying. Yes you can never ever run a lab. You can just ignore the trials and never deal with any of it, but 8 points and a good enchant are such a MASSIVE amount of power that you HAVE to run it if you dont want half a character.

Sure you can just ignore those optional skill point quests the whole game,but to do so puts you at a severe disadvantage. Why would you do that? You wouldn't even if you hate it. Once you get past a certain point, all this game is about is getting more power. To ignore such power is to decide you don't want to play the game anymore.

Did you even read what I wrote? Because you're responding to an argument that is at best tangential to what I said and completely ignoring my point. It seems you just cut and pasted your stock argument while completely ignoring the post you were responding to.


For reference(since apparently you missed it), Is that 99% of the game "needs" to be completed to progress. To single one area that you, subjectively, dislike as something that needs to be made optional while demanding that every other area that others, subjectively, dislike remain intact is a hypocritical and self-serving argument on its face.

This is only a discussion about lab, where are you getting all this change this but this remains intact stuff? Never did i mention lab in relation to anything else. You come off quite bitter and defensive. Did you design the fucking thing?Why are you defending it like its your favorite child?

My suggestion was never to remove it, just remove the points. The loot and the enchants are more then enough for people to run it. You could remove the lower labs and just make the end game trials lead to endgame lab. People would still run it, you would still have your lab PRETTY MUCH EXACTLY AS IT WAS BEFORE. IN FACT THAT WOULD MAYBE GET FEWER PEOPLE TO RUN IT AND ALLOW YOU TO MAKE EVEN MORE OFF YOUR ENCHANTS. WHATS NOT TO LIKE FROM A LAB RUNNERS PROSPECTIVE?

So feel free to turd it up with more of your bullshit, even shitty opinions are welcome on these forums.

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Chameleon wrote:

I hate the Lab so much that all my characters from now until they remove the mandatory nature of Lab will be Lab free builds.

In other words, bad.

Just remove ascendency from the lab or make it a one and done to get them all if you do Uber lab.

That solves all the problems. People can run it themselves 4 times or pay to get carried through Uber lab one time and be done.

Having to run it four times is annoying.