Lack of Passive Tree reset diminishes enjoyment

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Manofdusk wrote:

My question is HOW can you mess up a build so badly that it cannot function at all?

I wish they never put a respec in the game like all these disgusting hand-holding games on the market nowadays!
Anyway seriously there is already a respec system which is not bad at all (18 free respec points from quests if i remember correctly - more than enough) and the rest - you have to buy!

I don't really see a problem in the game, many old games had no respec. Haven't used a single respec point in POE, wish I could sell the ones you get from quests :P

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NiceTry wrote:

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Manofdusk wrote:

My question is HOW can you mess up a build so badly that it cannot function at all?

Really? …. Really? …. http://www.pathofexile.com/passive-skill-tree look at this thing it’s a skill constellation not a tree ….LOL

Plenty of people have made builds that are unviable for the late game, in fact most people doing a let’s play on this game start out by saying be prepared to screw your first character.

If you just want to color in-between the lines and make a generic build that’s fairly simple not to screw up but if you want to try some of the more interesting builds you’re committing multiple points off to the edge of this star-map of a skill tree. And you better like what you get once you get there or you’re screwed.

The current lack of regret points IMHO restricts player’s creativity and exploration of this skill tree, most will play this game and never come to appreciate the passive skill trees flexibility for themselves.

10 regret point per act would go a long way to give players some freedom to get creative in a game were your asigning over 100 points.

I don't think it's hard to mess up with the current skill tree...

http://www.pathofexile.com/passive-skill-tree/AAAAAgMAVytUrn3SIvRsCw2NHNx_xsHFLL_sGIhCj_qCHnvX2-fbC0wtRwYXUMLsX2oA_bTFFLAFtayYOjDUI42_99c5Ut2oUUebobw3xqIwfNDQSOdObTBxfyuPRlgHS3h319aKHRQ6QnRB-tKYrRR1pMJmnvfBDq3AGkOcKaVZ8xjbWiusqnTxW68sp3KpIWDdDaPyfNn3MkCgLOn46-9OFSBBqii1Kk0UcWCIA9s_Jw48YVJD0m6qOlKfy1YEb5618q6TNujfv4ZgEQ-pbnq4bPZYr0ZxeA1Bh5UgKrqCxwDM

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Logun24x7 wrote:

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Amaraethus wrote:

Yep, having an easy respec system would just herald in "leveling builds". Everyone would spec the exact same way for optimum leveling speed, then respec to their preferred build once they hit high level. The devs have also said that decisions for building a character should be on a level-by-level basis. They intend that to be a part of the game, and putting in an easy respec system would completely negate that; your passive point decisions should matter at every point in the game.

Wow what a novel idea being able to play both a fun leveling build and a solid endgame build all on the same character. Is that a bad thing? Add to that a group build and a solo build and a PvP build is it really a bad thing to be able to optimise the same character for all of these as needed.

And actually cookie cutter builds are exactly what you’re going to see because players are going to be more prone to researching what’s known to work rather than experimenting on their own. IMHO the Dev’s are flat out making a mistake not including reasonable affordable respect system.

If you want a healthy game with longevity you have to decrease the barrier to entry by taking the fear away from making a gimpped build and wasting dozen of hours of game play.

New players finding the game for the first time do not want to waste a handful of characters learning the ropes, and its rather boring taking the safer path and just following someone else’s cookie cutter build you found in a walkthrough on line.

On the contrary making a levelling build as such and having such ease of respec DESTROYS replayability. If you don't know how to plan or build your character then you have probably not thought out very much for what you want to do. Following a walkthrough is like taking an answer for a given puzzle. Ppl are cookie cuttering now b/c once again they dk wtf they're doing.

The dev's are flat out sticking to their guns and their convictions and not caving in to suggestions like these. I very much approve and applaud them of that effort. And fully disagree with suggestions such as these. Games like Ragnarok Online provide 0 respec for the most part and that game has lived for more then 13 years. So no, your ideals of opening it and making it more easy for newcomers is not a good idea.

What's known to work for me in all years of gaming is playing a game is a learning experience. Play some Dark Souls and you'll know what no spec means and what player skill is. Play some Vindictus and learn how to fight a boss solo, those games don't pity a player at all.

If you were trained in the dark arts to summon skeletons and zombies I dont think you would forget.

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Logun24x7 wrote:

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NiceTry wrote:

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Manofdusk wrote:

My question is HOW can you mess up a build so badly that it cannot function at all?

Really? …. Really? …. http://www.pathofexile.com/passive-skill-tree look at this thing it’s a skill constellation not a tree ….LOL

Plenty of people have made builds that are unviable for the late game, in fact most people doing a let’s play on this game start out by saying be prepared to screw your first character.

If you just want to color in-between the lines and make a generic build that’s fairly simple not to screw up but if you want to try some of the more interesting builds you’re committing multiple points off to the edge of this star-map of a skill tree. And you better like what you get once you get there or you’re screwed.

The current lack of regret points IMHO restricts player’s creativity and exploration of this skill tree, most will play this game and never come to appreciate the passive skill trees flexibility for themselves.

10 regret point per act would go a long way to give players some freedom to get creative in a game were your asigning over 100 points.

It's nto even a constellation of a tree jeez. Play some FF10. It's just a skill tree. Just a big one. Not even close to gargantuan. More games should be doign things like this. Most games these days are so mainstream you barely ever find something different.

What's a more interesting build seriously. My friend's gotten to level 22 without using a single point in the tree. He has an interesting build Already Act3 too. I'm not gonna prove anything or provide proof but if you're creative enough it doesn't require a genius to figure out funny things or mechanics in this game w/o having to "respec completely" to explore possible builds.

Well I appreciate the feedback this has got but Like I said a few dozen posts ago because of some of your arguments on the topic I agree a FULL skill point reset would likely not be in the best interest of the game.

However a more forgiving system I think is still in order and would improve the games appeal greatly. With over 100 passive skill points to be assigned and dozens of node choices that can adversely affect your character it would be a good idea just to give players a bit of comfort to experiment a bit without the finality. 30 passive skill regret points would not be out of order in this game. The benefits I’ll list below, for those out to WIN the internet I’ll wait for these to be cut to shreds….LOL

A) Broader Appeal – A slightly more forgiving system would provide a comfort zone for learning a passive skill system of above average complexity. Not everyone is a seasoned veteran or “ex FF10” player.

B) Promote experimentation – Additional regret points give players the comfort to try a non-standard builds knowing they can back track a bit if they end up with a build they find unappealing. In most cases 5 to 8 points are being assigned to go after a single major Skill Node.

C) Build Diversity – The more players testing unique builds will make for a less predictable player on player game environment.

D) Less Punishing - Additional regret points will give players an opportunity to salvage a character with a poor or unappealing build rather than starting over.

E) In Game learning – If players feel more comfortable doing their own experimentation with the passive skills they’ll spend more time testing their own builds instead of reading about someone else’s build, result more firsthand fun, a true understanding of the game and less cookie cutter builds.

F) Revenue – Reduce the barriers to entry, with a free to play game a large audience will be needed to continue development. It will be the more casual players that will be prone to picking up casual cosmetic items that will keep the game alive long term. It will be less painful to plan for that now then to make sweeping changes 6 months to a year from now when the early adopters start to hunt for the next big thing.

I wouldn't go so far as 30..... MAYBE an extra 1 refund point each refund quest (so you get 3 instead of 2 per refund quest) but I'm not so sure about that either.



My highest level toon is a Dominating Blow templar, focused on using Dominating Blow as a primary attack (a non-necro necro) with lightning strike as a secondary.

It's a pretty off-the-wall build and it's doing fine so far.... but if I have to scrap it when I reach the endgame, I won't complain because I've had fun levelling it (I may not scrap it even if it is useless because it's fun to play)


I played when NES was new and you died if you got hit once. You played games for the challenge of playing.... however, nowadays this endgame facrroll mentality has begun to dominate where people just want to get to the end and steamroll everything without any challenge.

It's why games don't last long anymore. People aren't playing them for the journey, they're playing for the destination (and once they reach it, set out for a new destination... ie. another game).

I'm happy with the way things are... sure, parts of the game need a little rebalancing (for example, Vaal One-Shots on normal difficulty).... but I've got no complaints :P