Donald Trump and US politics

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Jennik wrote:

Why would anyone let the words of bullshit artist spouting ever more bullshit assuage their worries? Anything good Trump says can be ignored, since a lying conman willing to tell you exactly what you want to hear can't be trusted.

Ad hominem. A statement that is true when you say it is still true if anyone else says it. Consult your chart.

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Jennik wrote:

Do you believe that, once a sufficient amount of critical thinking has been exerted, people end up in the middle?

It depends on the perspective. If "center" is understood in a relativist manner dependent upon a shifting Overton Window, synonymous with "middle," then no. If "centrist" is understood in an absolutist manner, meaning "devoid of 'Rightness' and 'Leftness,'" which may or may not be the middle of the current Overton Window, then yes.

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

In the context of identity politics in a democratic state...
* the Right seeks government intervention
1) favoring (near-)majority and/or traditional demographics and/or
2) against minority and/or untraditional demographics.
Ex: a state definition of marriage as between a man and a woman.
* the Left seeks government intervention
1) against (near-)majority and/or traditional demographics and/or
2) favoring minority and/or untraditional demographics.
Ex: laws restricting the freedom of speech to call anyone by any gender pronouns one chooses.
* the Center, if one exists, seeks equal or no government intervention
1) for or against (near-)majority and/or traditional demographics and/or
2) for or against minority and/or untraditional demographics.
Ex: advocating the repeal of Affirmative Action.

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Jennik wrote:

You were always a sucker for the middle ground.

I'm arguing for an extreme - the complete lack of bias towards people based on their ethnicity,
religion, sex or sexual orientation. The Overton WIndow has shifted such that this alone is no longer sufficient to be considered "left."

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Jennik wrote:

Remember - when two sides are unequal, and America's political parties are staggeringly so, the middle between them is not going to be a reasonable position. The right veered into insanity long ago and have only been accelerating since then. If you honestly believe you're in the middle between the left and the right, you're still practically a right-wing extremist.

Case in point. If I disagree with hate speech laws because I believe the government has no more place prohibiting the free speech of the Far Right than the free speech of the Far Left, I am labeled an alt-right "sympathizer" even though I disagree with that movement vehemently.

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Jennik wrote:

Also, drop the foolish notion that Trump is anything other than a moron. His lack of intelligence has only become more glaring since the election. Trump's speech is not remotely clever, nor does he know a damn thing about critical thinking.

You're correct that it isn't particularly advanced. It's not like it is rocket science to pretend not to know who David Duke is. It's not like it's brain surgery to aim for the center like a populist with explicit messaging. I don't seriously buy into the God Emperor 4D chess stuff (although I do enjoy it as a joke). Really, I think it is more that the DNC is as incompetent as it is corrupt.

Alt-left terrorists beating people up again in Berkeley, Antifa mayor of Berkeley of course told the police to stand down. Business as usual.

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Xavderion wrote:

Alt-left terrorists beating people up again in Berkeley, Antifa mayor of Berkeley of course told the police to stand down. Business as usual.

DM: Yvette, you have entered the campus to the south. You are now surrounded by people, standing in a crowd. The pungent stench of body odor emanates from the wet armpits near you.
Anita: Where is the patriarchy?
DM: They're right in front of you, first row.
Yvette: I cast a spell.
Anita: Where's Sargon of Akkad?
DM: In the front row, duh!
Yvette: I wanna cast a spell.
Anita: Can I have accuse him of harassment?
DM: Yes, you can accuse him of harassment already, just go do it.
Yvette: I can cast any of these, right? On the list?
DM: Yes, any, any of the first level ones.
Anita: I'm gonna get a complaint filed; anyone care to join? Hey, George, I'm not on campus, right?
DM: What campus?
Yvette: I wanna cast... Magic Bike Lock.
Anita: The campus where she's casting all these spells from.
DM: How dare you assume Yvette's gender? Besides, xe hasn't cast anything yet.
Yvette: I am though, if you'd listen. I'm casting... Magic Bike Lock.
DM: (with a sinister smile) Why are you casting Magic Bike Lock? This is a peaceful protest.
Yvette: I...I'm attacking peacefully!

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

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Jennik wrote:

Why would anyone let the words of bullshit artist spouting ever more bullshit assuage their worries? Anything good Trump says can be ignored, since a lying conman willing to tell you exactly what you want to hear can't be trusted.

Ad hominem. A statement that is true when you say it is still true if anyone else says it. Consult your chart.

That's not remotely ad hominem. If you can recall one simple step back in this conversation chain, we're not talking about factual information. I'm obviously not saying two plus two stops being four if Trump gives that answer. I'm saying it's completely irrational to believe his claims about how much he supports the LGBT community, how terrible the Nazis are (you know, the ones he doesn't consider good people), and so on. He has demonstrated countless times that his promises are empty and his word is meaningless.

As for the rest, I'm just not touching that nonsense. It always takes ages to unwrap and dissect your insanity, yet nothing ever cracks through your shell regardless of what I say. You've crafted some incredibly strong defenses to protect your views from reality ever getting through. Your absurd, willful misunderstanding of what I said above is an example of this. I'd forgotten how frustrating it is to try to communicate with you.

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

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MrSmiley21 wrote:

Trump has already given more to his base, politically, than any other Republican President in recent history.

While true, not a high bar. A throwing of crumbs.

But we still got nearly 4 years left for his 1st term.

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What I used to say was: economically, Democrats promise things I dislike and deliver some of it; Republicans promise things I like and deliver some of the opposite.

Most of those Republicans are the Neoconservatives. I don't care any more for John Mccain, Mitt Romney, or Marco Rubio, than I do for Hillary or Obama.

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Jennik wrote:

As for the rest, I'm just not touching that nonsense. It always takes ages to unwrap and dissect your insanity, yet nothing ever cracks through your shell regardless of what I say. You've crafted some incredibly strong defenses to protect your views from reality ever getting through. Your absurd, willful misunderstanding of what I said above is an example of this. I'd forgotten how frustrating it is to try to communicate with you.

Actually, Scrotie is one of the more rational people here. You're a purely emotionally driven person. It shines through in your rhetoric, and that's not the type of approach you take to try and make a point with anyone who's remotely rational. Most of you liberals have that problem. You're just slightly more fiery than average.

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MrSmiley21 wrote:

Actually, Scrotie is one of the more rational people here.

Forgive me if I take your understanding of what constitutes rationality with a grain of salt.

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MrSmiley21 wrote:

You're a purely emotionally driven person. It shines through in your rhetoric, and that's not the type of approach you take to try and make a point with anyone who's remotely rational. Most of you liberals have that problem. You're just slightly more fiery than average.

I'm always amazed at the absurdity of the things you say. Your projection is insane.

You irrationally demonize me because you view me as your enemy, as an "other." What I say is irrelevant. How I say it is irrelevant. Any remotely rational person reading my posts will instantly know that I'm not "a purely emotionally driven person."

You call me angry when the post you're replying to has nothing in it that signals anger. You call me "a purely emotionally driven person" when I give logical arguments. The things you say, time and time again, are not remotely representative of reality. This is telling. It shows that you're not attacking me based on facts. This is because your world, like that of most Trump supporters, is one of fiction.

Sadly, I'm well aware that nothing I say will get through to you. You are the blindest of true believers. All I can give you is my pity.

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Jennik wrote:

I'm saying it's completely irrational to believe his claims about how much he supports the LGBT community,

- He said he'd let transgender people use his restroom. And took their side on that issue.
- He's not opposed to same sex marriage.
- The transgender ban in the military is overblown. All he did was roll it back, when it wasn't even in place for a year. The military isn't ready for it. He's still OK with gay people serving.

He's a centrist on the issue. He'll side with them on some things, and against them on others. Which is more than the average Republican will give them.

With emotionally charged people like you, there is no middle ground. You're either fully committed, or you're a racist/bigot/nazi.

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how terrible the Nazis are (you know, the ones he doesn't consider good people), and so on.

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He has demonstrated countless times that his promises are empty and his word is meaningless.

Name one president who was able to deliver on everything they promised. So far, he's given his base plenty.

This reply was to showcase how irrational Jennik is.

I just want to remind people that Smiley a page or two back celebrated specifically because a racist who ran a concentration camp was pardoned by the racist president in close proximity to a Nazi rally. It's pretty obvious what this true believer actually believes.

Please understand what Trump has brought out of the darkness in America. These people are a legitimate threat.

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Jennik wrote:

I just want to remind people that Smiley a page or two back celebrated specifically because a racist who ran a concentration camp was pardoned by the racist president in close proximity to a Nazi rally. It's pretty obvious what this true believer actually believes.

Trump is actually the reincarnation of Hitler. Hitler's death was April 30, 1945, and Trump was born June 14, 1946. Souls can take about a year to reincarnate into a new body. The charisma Trump possesses, was just like Hitler's. That's what they call a spiritually inherited personality trait. Every human soul has things they excel at over other tasks. In the last few previous lives, I was a carpenter, stone mason and wheel wright. But I'm just an average soul. Trump's soul is special. Certain souls are destined to be leaders and rulers. And unironically, the name Donald literally means "Ruler of all" in Scottish and Gaelic. Trump is cosmically ordained to rule. It's been decided by beings more powerful than humans.