Donald Trump and US politics

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DalaiLama wrote:

If the left isn't willing to come to the table at all, they will be looking like complete obstructionists to the American people (which has historically mean a lot get booted from office) and they will be facing a much more united GOP.

This is so funny it makes me want to cut myself.

Of course it's rich coming from "shut down the government" republicans, but it doesn't change the fact that it's obstructionism.

Escalation on both sides, repeated for decades, is what got us here.

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pneuma wrote:

Of course it's rich coming from "shut down the government" republicans, but it doesn't change the fact that it's obstructionism.

Escalation on both sides, repeated for decades, is what got us here.

And they will continue to do so. You probably didn't hear the news. Democrat voters want resistance to Trump and republicans, they want obstructionism. If Democrats don’t wake up to their disconnect with voters and fight for their voters, they stand to lose what little they have left. Compromise only make sense if there is something important or cherish that Democrats could support, except when there is none, it become Something Democrats would be stupid to do.

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pneuma wrote:

Of course it's rich coming from "shut down the government" republicans, but it doesn't change the fact that it's obstructionism.

Escalation on both sides, repeated for decades, is what got us here.

Plus constant non-stop obstructionism has been a winning strategy for republicans since 2008.

Also, can we differentiate "fundamentally stopping the government from working" from "blocking awful legislature"? Preventing republicans from taking apart Obamacare and leaving it hollowed-out shell (while passing another tax cut for the rich) is not obstructionism. It wouldn't shock me if the republicans managed to paint it as such, blaming the democrats when their slap-dash, hurried, awful replacement falls apart, and got away with it. The right has had a very effective propaganda campaign for quite a while now, and it's not like fucking Breitbart or Fox News is going to blame them for it, and for many people, if it's not on one of those, it's "fake news". They've already been wildly successful in blaming the democrats for Obamacare's failings, and taking absolutely none of the blame for their role in ensuring it works as poorly as possible.

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deathflower wrote:

And they will continue to do so. You probably didn't hear the news. Democrat voters want resistance to Trump and republicans, they want obstructionism. If Democrats don’t wake up to their disconnect with voters and fight for their voters, they stand to lose what little they have left. Compromise only make sense if there is something important or cherish that Democrats could support, except when there is none, it become Something Democrats would be stupid to do.

I totally, and completely disagree.

Democrats do not want 'resistance'. Reasonable blue collar center-left individuals have absolutely zero interest in the 'resistance' which does nothing but bitch and moan about everything. The exact same Democrats that were lost in the general aren't looking for this kind of behavior--it doesn't jibe with day-to-day reality.

The 'resistance' is an attempt to appease the progressive wing of the DNC by grandstanding politicians, namely your Warrens, Pelosis, and Sanders. There's no indication this wing of the party is capable of electing anyone or anything (gg they're able to demonstrate force at LAX, O'hare, JFK...lots of solid progress on the map being made there...), and in the meantime they've thrown a shit fit for every single one of the administration's moves, be it appointments, EO, tweets, policies, nervous ticks, fingernail length, etc.

Middle of the road Democrats are not nearly as partisan as these jerk-off progressives are.

Lama is correct. The American people are not going to look upon the DNC favorably in this case, especially if the Administration gets more good numbers as they did Friday.

And, we'll simply have to see what the final bill looks like after the messy legislative process.

Please don't mix Democrats with progressives. The former actually stands for something.

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Laurium wrote:

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deathflower wrote:

And they will continue to do so. You probably didn't hear the news. Democrat voters want resistance to Trump and republicans, they want obstructionism. If Democrats don’t wake up to their disconnect with voters and fight for their voters, they stand to lose what little they have left. Compromise only make sense if there is something important or cherish that Democrats could support, except when there is none, it become Something Democrats would be stupid to do.

I totally, and completely disagree.

Democrats do not want 'resistance'. Reasonable blue collar center-left individuals have absolutely zero interest in the 'resistance' which does nothing but bitch and moan about everything. The exact same Democrats that were lost in the general aren't looking for this kind of behavior--it doesn't jibe with day-to-day reality.

The 'resistance' is an attempt to appease the progressive wing of the DNC by grandstanding politicians, namely your Warrens, Pelosis, and Sanders. There's no indication this wing of the party is capable of electing anyone or anything (gg they're able to demonstrate force at LAX, O'hare, JFK...lots of solid progress on the map being made there...), and in the meantime they've thrown a shit fit for every single one of the administration's moves, be it appointments, EO, tweets, policies, nervous ticks, fingernail length, etc.

Middle of the road Democrats are not nearly as partisan as these jerk-off progressives are.

Lama is correct. The American people are not going to look upon the DNC favorably in this case, especially if the Administration gets more good numbers as they did Friday.

And, we'll simply have to see what the final bill looks like after the messy legislative process.

Please don't mix Democrats with progressives. The former actually stands for something.

Except blue collar center-left individuals are only a segment of Democrats. The same segment that abandon the Democrats and vote for Donald Trump. Great job voting for the other side. Why do they even need the Democrats? They are republicans now.

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Laurium wrote:

in the meantime they've thrown a shit fit for every single one of the administration's moves, be it appointments, EO, tweets, policies, nervous ticks, fingernail length, etc.

To be fair, I have yet to see a real shitfit thrown over an action that wasn't fucking awful. The fact you see them as throwing shitfits over every little thing is a pretty good indication of just how bad things are.

Most people were pretty okay with Mattis, including the progressive wing of the democratic party - he was confirmed 98-1, with the sole objection being someone who disliked the rules change made to allow his confirmation. But Mattis was actually well-qualified for the job, and not an almost uniquely terrible person to choose for the job. This makes him an exception in Trump's cabinet. Our secretary of education has no qualifications and little understanding of things it is her job to deal with. Our head of the EPA doesn't believe that carbon dioxide is responsible for global warming, in a distinct break from all previous heads of the EPA, the very firm consensus of the scientific community, and reality. Our secretary of energy wanted to abolish the department he now heads before he found out what it actually did, mere weeks before he was confirmed.

And yeah, we complain about his tweets. Because this man now represents our country. He is the head of state, the final word, the head of the executive branch... and he's still taking time to slag off random actors who criticized him, publicly hash out petty grudges, spread lies, and cause the occasional international issue. When he puts out direct communication to the rest of us, even in 140-character snippets, it's a useful look into his head. And guess what, the person shown by his twitter is the same person shown by his campaign: a hot-headed, impatient, unfocused mess who holds grudges the way a chronic masturbator holds his cock.

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deathflower wrote:

Why do they even need the Democrats? They are republicans now.

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Budget_player_cadet wrote:

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Laurium wrote:

in the meantime they've thrown a shit fit for every single one of the administration's moves, be it appointments, EO, tweets, policies, nervous ticks, fingernail length, etc.

To be fair, I have yet to see a real shit fit thrown over an action that wasn't fucking awful. The fact you see them as throwing shit fits over every little thing is a pretty good indication of just how bad things are.

It's not "to be fair". It's "to be partisan and swing this in my favor."

That's one way to interpret, to say it's reflective of just how bad things are. I disagree.

The progressive leadership that has a choke-hold over the DNC could have chosen to make a stand against 1 or 2 appointments. Maybe Education and EPA. Maybe AG and EPA. Whatever combination they really felt strongly about. Most people would agree that's reasonable, in keeping with all the previous administration transitions. Most people understand that when you win, you get to appoint 90% of your dudes/dudettes.

Only one appointment went through relatively quietly.

Instead, there was shit fit over: AG, Sec o State, EPA, HUD, HHS, Education, Supreme Court, a general shit fit about the number of generals being appointed, and at first general complaints over lack of diversity in the cabinet. In short, EVERYTHING was/is being complained about. For crying out loud, Marshal Service had to be appointed to a member of the cabinet. That's a gold standard for shit fit.

To the middle of the road Democrats they need to win in the future, it looks bad. And it's all for nothing. All the appointments went through. It's embarrassing.

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Budget_player_cadet wrote:

unfocused mess who holds grudges the way a chronic masturbator holds his cock.

OK.

Still 'draining the swamp' I see.