Chris getting a lot of shit on r/poe

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Hyskoa wrote:

It's a very easy step to go from sycophantic supporters to toxic opposition. All you need to do is poorly or not address performance issues for a long amount of time. Add in a strong adherence to forcing people to use shadows, graphic laggy elements, botting, massive scripting, currency flippers, protection of scammers and ordering servers only when the community complains hard enough and boom, instant toxicity. All created by prioritizing badly.

can you elaborate on the bolded part?

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did you guys ever consider that the obvious solution to permanently getting busted when openly communicating issues the game has is to not discuss them openly anymore?

calling people who appreciate their unique openness "ass lickers" isn't helpful either and going into the same direction.

all those "bad programming!!", "hilarious balancing!!", "fix the internet, ggg!!" are welcome to just pull their own game out of their back where all those issues are fixed.

or at least come up with constructive suggestions on how to improve the respective problem. for a stat make one suggestion to stop scammers where no support money is blasted out of the window and the freedom of players to "make deals" isn't restricted.

As he should. Real people who play the game like me founded 1 ex in last three seasons. Meanwhile a bot can find dozens a week.

Only reason I have shit at all is I know how to buy low sell higher.

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vio wrote:

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Hyskoa wrote:

It's a very easy step to go from sycophantic supporters to toxic opposition. All you need to do is poorly or not address performance issues for a long amount of time. Add in a strong adherence to forcing people to use shadows, graphic laggy elements, botting, massive scripting, currency flippers, protection of scammers and ordering servers only when the community complains hard enough and boom, instant toxicity. All created by prioritizing badly.

can you elaborate on the bolded part?

Sure, the DX11 patch doesn't allow people to turn off shadows. There's still no slider for graphical elements of enemies and your own either. So we're forced to endure slideshow-like gameplay whenever we get into bigger packs because ggg is so afraid the game will "look bad".
Not understanding that the game already looks bad if even Nugiyen's computer freezes up while using standard stuff like minions.

You should be able to completely turn off every graphical detail. To make sure people don't experience graphical lag while playing. Immersion be damned.

Botting and massive scripting isn't something I can give more information about since it gets you banned on the forums, but simply use google. There's a metric fsckton of stuff out there.

And before you accuse me of using any of it, I don't. I'm one of those dumb fscks that still plays the game in a normal(read: bad) fashion. Because I've played since open beta and still only have like a couple of exalts on standard. I don't use it because I refuse to give money to botters and don't want to risk the little bit of stuff I do have by installing risky software.

I know about these things though because I've seen tons of people use it, buy the gear they want and have fun with the game. While I keep grinding the game like a chump, trying to get a headhunters to finally have some fun as well.

They never spend a penny on ggg though, since according to them "why pay for spaghetti code and a non rewarding loot-system/end-game/xp-system?"

So yeah, very anecdotal, but it's happened so many times already I'd be surprised if this wasn't part of a larger trend.

Continued:

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for a stat make one suggestion to stop scammers where no support money is blasted out of the window and the freedom of players to "make deals" isn't restricted.

For me, it's simple, same principle as steam from Valve. If you take away the tedious parts of the game, people will rather grind stuff out than resort to programs/bots/rmt to do it for them.

Put in a baseline for exalts and mirrors. Every type of currency needs to have an upper baseline. Every unique needs to have a valid grind-able way of attainment(like the divination card system, except not completely and utterly useless).
Xp curve needs to be normalised after lvl 80(right now it's frankly ridiculous).
Map system needs to be reworked so we don't constantly have to reroll new stuff and deal with map drought.
Let people have sliders for every graphical element inside the game while ggg takes their time to figure out how to properly fix everything. (I shouldn't have to download risky software to disable these things).

Plenty more, but ggg ignores these issues and burries their heads in the sand saying "it'll be fixed soonTM." Which means in a decade or two.

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Aim_Deep wrote:

As he should. Real people who play the game like me founded 1 ex in last three seasons. Meanwhile a bot can find dozens a week.

Only reason I have shit at all is I know how to buy low sell higher.

i've found 3 ex this league :P i couldn't even tell you the last time i saw one before that

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Hyskoa wrote:

For me, it's simple, same principle as steam from Valve. If you take away the tedious parts of the game, people will rather grind stuff out than resort to programs/bots/rmt to do it for them.

Put in a baseline for exalts and mirrors. Every type of currency needs to have an upper baseline. Every unique needs to have a valid grind-able way of attainment(like the divination card system, except not completely and utterly useless).
Xp curve needs to be normalised after lvl 80(right now it's frankly ridiculous).
Map system needs to be reworked so we don't constantly have to reroll new stuff and deal with map drought.

So to drive away botters and rmt'ers you'd make the game so easy & streamlined you'd drive away all but the most casual of players along with them? Sounds great. It wouldn't even prevent botting, say for example if you put in a grindable way to 100% guarantee you a Headhunter or a Shav's, you think people wouldn't bot that?

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RandallPOE wrote:

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Hyskoa wrote:

For me, it's simple, same principle as steam from Valve. If you take away the tedious parts of the game, people will rather grind stuff out than resort to programs/bots/rmt to do it for them.

Put in a baseline for exalts and mirrors. Every type of currency needs to have an upper baseline. Every unique needs to have a valid grind-able way of attainment(like the divination card system, except not completely and utterly useless).
Xp curve needs to be normalised after lvl 80(right now it's frankly ridiculous).
Map system needs to be reworked so we don't constantly have to reroll new stuff and deal with map drought.

So to drive away botters and rmt'ers you'd make the game so easy & streamlined you'd drive away all but the most casual of players along with them? Sounds great. It wouldn't even prevent botting, say for example if you put in a grindable way to 100% guarantee you a Headhunter or a Shav's, you think people wouldn't bot that?

People still torrent videogames, but Valve is making bank. Same principle here, if you make the game challenging but not tedious(and not a cakewalk like D3), people will reroll characters at a much greater rate then when they burn out at lvl 95 and are forced to rmt/bot/script/currency flip if they want the chaser uniques, mirrored gear or reach lvl 100 in a healthy, non-lobotomising way.

People are more eager to play, reroll characters and genuinely enjoy the game without being forced to purchase a new pc/ssd/bot/script/whatever. => more stash tab sales for ggg.
But when you force people to either play for 1-2 years before you get some lucky item drops or simply work a regular job for a week and earn enough for full mirrored gear, GUESS WHAT PEOPLE ARE GOING TO CHOOSE. I'll give you a hint, it's not the first option. Only your die-hard crowd would take that. And they're a tiny subsection of their target demographic.

Hell, even Kripparian became casual.

Do you blame ppl for Hate/etc. ? we pay GGG soo we can (hope for it) play bot's freee game

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Aim_Deep wrote:

As he should. Real people who play the game like me founded 1 ex in last three seasons. Meanwhile a bot can find dozens a week.

Only reason I have shit at all is I know how to buy low sell higher.

is not soo bad for me 3-7? ex soo far , i'm happy :)

so a viable solution to change one's miserable life is to kill oneself.

other suggestions to fight those issues without completely abandoning the vision of a challenging game?

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RandallPOE wrote:

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Hyskoa wrote:

For me, it's simple, same principle as steam from Valve. If you take away the tedious parts of the game, people will rather grind stuff out than resort to programs/bots/rmt to do it for them.

Put in a baseline for exalts and mirrors. Every type of currency needs to have an upper baseline. Every unique needs to have a valid grind-able way of attainment(like the divination card system, except not completely and utterly useless).
Xp curve needs to be normalised after lvl 80(right now it's frankly ridiculous).
Map system needs to be reworked so we don't constantly have to reroll new stuff and deal with map drought.

So to drive away botters and rmt'ers you'd make the game so easy & streamlined you'd drive away all but the most casual of players along with them? Sounds great. It wouldn't even prevent botting, say for example if you put in a grindable way to 100% guarantee you a Headhunter or a Shav's, you think people wouldn't bot that?

There is a very big difference between the two words you are using to describe the same thing.

Easy = Casual
Streamlined =/= Casual

In fact right now the people who streamline the game using the tools that are already present to do so like strict loot filters and poe.trade are the ones who are the most hardcore.

Poe has a very unique approach to power in their game, it is that knowledge is power. There is PLENTY of room to make the game more user friendly as its really starting to show its age with some of the concepts its holding onto in terms of game design.

So in essence if you streamlined the experience it would do literally nothing to change why the game attracts a "hardcore" audience, the only thing it would do is place less incentive for people to RMT gear. It would also allow more people to enjoy the same game you like and support it because I know without a shadow of a doubt that a lot of people do not try it because of how user unfriendly it is and for the insane amount of time it asks a player to sacrifice to have fun.

The only purpose the "oh no you are making it for the casuals!" argument ever serves is to preserve the status quo with which you feel comfortable. Since you feel you can succeed in this broken space it makes you feel superior. Its an incredibly selfish and childish mindset that leads to development stagnation and the death of a game because it can not attract a wider audience outside of its core fan base. Stop being a brat and let the other children play with all the toys, it will only make the whole experience better.

As a major side note on the current model of the game, it is good as far as it follows the philosophy of give the players all the content and if they like it let them support the game but fails miserably at using stale gear treadmill and forced scarcity tactics to keep players engaged. They are also themselves stuck in a bad game development cycle where they depend on only new content to maintain profits with the league system which makes their efforts to fix old content always take second priority. Its why all the things mechanically broken with the game take ages to be fixed and sometimes get left alone permanently.

If we as the players want a better game we need to communicate to GGG that it is ok for them to run fluff events that aren't full fledged leagues to make time for themselves to fix all the issues that are plaguing the game. They of course in turn must prove that such events would be in fact used to make major fixes and not serve as just an excuse to be lazy on content creation. They are on a treadmill as much as we are as players, I would like if we all got off these respective treadmills and enjoy the experience of poe as a community.