Yo china has pay2live.

"

Acutally no. If the small shop moves their goods faster, they may make larger profit per time even if the profit per item is smaller.

Consider: A large shop has room for 1000 items. They can afford to wait for the right moment so they price their items high. They sell 100 items a week and make $10 profit for each item, for $1000 per week.

A small shop only has room for 200 items. They price their items aggressively and cycle through their entire inventory every week. They only make $7 profit per item, but thanks to larger volume it add up to $1400 per week. Small shop wins.

Selling the items fast, even at a slightly lower price, allows you to use the resulting currency for acquiring more wealth. Everyone seems to hate currency flippers, but fact is, it's the fastest way to gain wealth since currency (or at least a few types) is always in demand.

Oh, come on. That's not true and you know it because the more items you have the more likely you are to sell something at the same price range as the smaller shop. So you actually earn $2000-3000 per week.

And as I said, not even this analogy is perfect (which you conveniently didn't quote), since you actually get the same ammount of drops while playing, but you have to sell all the stuff that you don't have room for to the vendor for a large loss.

Now you might say that with the clearspeed meta, you don't sell that many items anyway, but essences, divination cards and maps already take most of your stash space. You also spend a lot more time moving things around.
You don't have space for recipees, etc, etc.

Having stash tabs (especially currency and premium ones) is a huge advantage in PoE unless you're playing self-found. Then it's just very annoying.


Again: Try playing with 4 for one league and then tell me it's not a time and currency saver. (Which is basically a quantity increase because you effectively get more currency per map. And it's interesting that those arguing it's not are the ones who have a bunch of supporter titles under their names and probably more than enough stash tabs.)

"

Ravenstrider wrote:

Again: Try playing with 4 for one league and then tell me it's not a time and currency saver. (Which is basically a quantity increase because you effectively get more currency per map. And it's interesting that those arguing it's not are the ones who have a bunch of supporter titles under their names and probably more than enough stash tabs.)

I've been thinking about that for a couple of leagues. I have about 50 stash tabs, but most of them are used for hoarding items I'm unlikely to ever actually use. I mean, six tabs of skill gems, most of which don't have any quality and could easily be bought from vendors? Twenty tabs of unique items, including such niceties as Thousand Ribbons or The Screaming Eagle? Three tabs of jewelry bases, just in case I want to craft something out of them? 14000 scrolls of wisdom?

So, here are the rules I've thought up:
1. I will play softcore, because I can't stomach losing tens or hundreds of hours of effort on a hardcore character no matter how many tabs I have for spare equipment.
2. I will play self-found because that's my thing. Solo or party depends on whether my friends want to play too.
3. I will make a forum thread and post updates at least once for every day that I actually play.
4. At the start of the league I will mark four regular-sized tabs for use by this character.
5. Because I still like hoarding, I'm allowed to put excess items in the other tabs. Those items will be forever inaccessible for this character. This is actually worse than even vendoring them, because I don't get any currency in return.
6. I will reach level 90.
7. I will beat all white and yellow maps. No promises about red maps because I might not have time for farm them all.

The point of this is to prove that it's possible to reach and progress through maps using only the four free tabs. My definition of "winning the game" is beating all of the content at least once, and accumulating wealth or being a successful trader has nothing to do with it. While I like hoarding uniques and looking at my 724 chaos orbs, that's almost entirely a vanity thing. The largest amount of chaos orbs I've spent on crafting at once is about 200.

So, what do you say? Should I do it? Will it shut you up or will you continue to push your own definition of winning which I guess involves heavy trading?

"

databeaver wrote:

I've been thinking about that for a couple of leagues. I have about 50 stash tabs, but most of them are used for hoarding items I'm unlikely to ever actually use. I mean, six tabs of skill gems, most of which don't have any quality and could easily be bought from vendors? Twenty tabs of unique items, including such niceties as Thousand Ribbons or The Screaming Eagle? Three tabs of jewelry bases, just in case I want to craft something out of them? 14000 scrolls of wisdom?

So, here are the rules I've thought up:
1. I will play softcore, because I can't stomach losing tens or hundreds of hours of effort on a hardcore character no matter how many tabs I have for spare equipment.
2. I will play self-found because that's my thing. Solo or party depends on whether my friends want to play too.
3. I will make a forum thread and post updates at least once for every day that I actually play.
4. At the start of the league I will mark four regular-sized tabs for use by this character.
5. Because I still like hoarding, I'm allowed to put excess items in the other tabs. Those items will be forever inaccessible for this character. This is actually worse than even vendoring them, because I don't get any currency in return.
6. I will reach level 90.
7. I will beat all white and yellow maps. No promises about red maps because I might not have time for farm them all.

The point of this is to prove that it's possible to reach and progress through maps using only the four free tabs. My definition of "winning the game" is beating all of the content at least once, and accumulating wealth or being a successful trader has nothing to do with it. While I like hoarding uniques and looking at my 724 chaos orbs, that's almost entirely a vanity thing. The largest amount of chaos orbs I've spent on crafting at once is about 200.

So, what do you say? Should I do it? Will it shut you up or will you continue to push your own definition of winning which I guess involves heavy trading?

Oh, of course you can do that. As I said earlier, when you're playing SSF, the four tab limit is just an inconvenience.
I'm not arguing that PoE is not a F2P game. You can beat all content without paying a cent.

But it is Pay-for-advantage.
And, again, as I said before, this evens out at around 20-30 dollars invested and further investments don't make any difference.

PoE is definitely one of the fairest f2p games (it was even more so before the premium/currency/whatever tabs), but it triggers me when people deny that the shop has P2W features (at least if you play the trading game... which all non-SSF people have to do, especially if they are playing a popular/expensive build) when it clearly does.

And I am afraid that introduction of more and more items like essences, breachstones, various unstackable keys and what-not, in addition to more and more specialized tabs for those items that make things more convenient for people who pay will just make the game impossible to play if you don't pay.


Edit: To clarify- when I say p2w, I don't mean that you have to pay in order to do the hardest content. I mean that you have a clear advantage versus players who don't when it comes to how fast/easily you do it.

And I'm looking forward to reading the report on how you're progressing!

"

Ravenstrider wrote:

And, again, as I said before, this evens out at around 20-30 dollars invested and further investments don't make any difference.

That's a perfectly reasonable price for something you're going to spend hundreds of hours on, don't you think? AAA games cost double that and typically provide 10-50 hours of gameplay. A movie ticket costs about half (where I live at least) and only provides two hours of entertainment. For a subscription-based MMO that'd buy you two months of playtime.

"

Ravenstrider wrote:

PoE is definitely one of the fairest f2p games (it was even more so before the premium/currency/whatever tabs), but it triggers me when people deny that the shop has P2W features (at least if you play the trading game... which all non-SSF people have to do, especially if they are playing a popular/expensive build) when it clearly does.

I guess that's a matter of perspective. I got into gaming in the 90s when most games didn't have any online features. You bought (or pirated) the game and what you got was what you had. Because all of the game data was locally available cheating was prolific and there was no point in trying to sell players any extras like stash tabs.

Then came the Internet and shortly afterwards flash games that could be played directly in the browser. Around this time, in 2006 or so, I first encountered the term pay-to-win. It was associated with a certain type of free-to-play Korean RPG, where at certain points of the game you needed some kind of key item to proceed. The key could be bought for like 5-10 dollars. In theory it could also be bought with in-game gold, but it cost 1000 gold and you only got one gold per mission that took 15 minutes to do. The exact values varied from game to game, but the common theme was that by paying real money you could instantly skip hundreds of hours of grinding.

I've also played one MMORPG which was ostensibly free-to-play, but accessing the game's levels required a slowly-regenerating resource. The regeneration rate and storage capacity were such that you could play for about one hour per day. Or you could buy refills with real money. The game has moved to a different business model since then, but looking at some old reviews the price was around half a dollar per hour.

So you can see how stash tabs in Path of Exile aren't quite pay-to-win to me. Yes, they provide a more efficient way to do something, but you still have to put in significant effort to actually do it. Currency doesn't just materialize out of nowhere, and you won't magically get the ability to accurately appraise items.

"

Ravenstrider wrote:

And I am afraid that introduction of more and more items like essences, breachstones, various unstackable keys and what-not, in addition to more and more specialized tabs for those items that make things more convenient for people who pay will just make the game impossible to play if you don't pay.

That's a very reasonable concern. It wouldn't be amiss of GGG to provide weakened versions of some of the special tabs for free. Say, a divination card tab that can hold 36 types of divination cards (of your choice) and has a stacking limit of 20. Or three wildcard currency slots with a stacking limit of 500. Those would take some storage pressure off the basic tabs without devaluing the actual special tabs too badly.

It would be quite nice to just give people the one free premium tab so they can trade without having to post on the forums/use 3d party listing software. I wouldn't be as concerned if they did that, because it shows that they are not adding all these features solely to increase revenue.

I have nothing against GGG earning. Quite the oposite.
I just think there's ways to do it without shitting all over the ethical microtransaction system they had going before they added the premium tab trading functionality.

But, that's just my opinion.

It would be quite nice to just give people the one free premium tab so they can trade without having to post on the forums/use 3d party listing software. I wouldn't be as concerned if they did that, because it shows that they are not adding all these features solely to increase revenue and it levels the playing field a bit.

I have nothing against GGG earning. Quite the oposite.
I just think there's ways to do it without shitting all over the ethical microtransaction system they had going before they added the premium tab trading functionality.

But, that's just my opinion.

ITT: People who've never seen chinese gaming before. Some games come with built in bots. This has nothing to do with GGG, Tencent pretty much does whatever they fuck they want, they know their customers.

"

astrartea wrote:

ITT: People who've never seen chinese gaming before. Some games come with built in bots. This has nothing to do with GGG, Tencent pretty much does whatever they fuck they want, they know their customers.

Ofcourse its got everything to do with ggg, they sold to tencent, the cheap b********

"

http://imgur.com/gallery/pyva8

Cmon that's fucking funny it basically uses GGG coins or their type of currency to revive guess that works for HC too?

Haha.

This has to be the biggest bs in the history of POE so far! #facepalm

Who to f"#" still cares about a game in another continent under different publisher with servers not even remotely having a connection with our realms?

Seriously, are you concerned with hunger in Africa the same way? I guess most of people aren't, but they will find ways of complaining about it, even though they can't affect it if they aren't there.