On the subject of Gold.

I don't think you need to bother debating gold. You already have a lowest form of currency in the game (scrolls). You just need to assign a value to them in the form of items from vendors or a recipe.

1 really cool idea I had was to sell a "?" orb for 100 wisdom scrolls that gives you a random orb. Gambling is an excellent sink and also gives scrolls a value end game!

Assign a scroll value to other low end vendor priced orbs such as transform, augmentation, and alteration. Thus making scrolls an avenue for all vendor items and low end orbs.

4x orbs for next lower orb is quite high to me. I believe 2x transform - 1x augmentation and 2x augmentation - 1x alteration is more in line with true value. These all need to be connected through vendors. They almost are, just needs some tweaking.

The lowest base currency is already in the game, you (devs) just need to make it useful! =)

Five white items = 1 scroll of wisdom

20 unidentified blue items = 1 transmutation orb

20 scrolls of wisdom + 20 potential transmutation shards = at least 1 alteration orb, maybe more
identified items give you alteration shards, but cost you wisdom scrolls, and the transmutation shards you would have got from the unidentified items

x number of alteration orbs = 1 Orb of Alchemy
if you reroll magic items to get quantity/quality mods

So, there are some recipes there for upgrading currency already, it just takes a bit of work. I don't think GGG wants any easy ways to turn low currency into higher currency, because that would just accelerate the rate of inflation, and negate some of the benefits of the no-gold system such as bot deterrence.

yea, those are pretty bad recipes for human players to make, and most of them aren't worth the cost let alone the time.

if the means to and end isn't worth it, then the means is useless i.e. id/portal/transmute orbs. i am trying to suggest things to fix it.

also your bot debate doesn't work. bots will run 24/7 with pickit and only pick up orbs from a set list along with %gems and whatever else brings highest returns. if they are going to bot to upgrade currency they will do it reguardless b/c it costs them 0 time investment. if its hard they will just run more bots.

if you punish players on the basis of bots then i think thats the wrong path to go down.

Bot deterrence is just a positive side effect of the system, not a main reason for it.

The problem with your proposition is giving orbs a set exchange rate, with scrolls being the exchange middleman. If such a system were desired, they would have simply implemented a middleman currency... like gold.

The reason vendors charge high prices is to deter the use of those prices as baselines for player-player trades. We're supposed to value our own items, and trade according to what we want/need, not according to what the game tells us the items are worth. Buying orbs from vendors is there so you can get something in a pinch if really want it.

Thats a bridge solution.

Anything that allows players to bridge low currency to high currency.

So that low currency actually has value.


Ive been complaining by the lack of a bridge since before 0.9.5, I foresee the short comming of the currency system.

Now everyone only cares about fusings, gcp, chaos, exalted, regal, blessed and the only common orb that still has some value is divine, chance, jewelers, alchemy and that is only for people who have no idea of the current efficient methods of acquiring alchemy orbs. Once open beta comes, regal value will be diluted. Once people realize the ineficiency of fusings, these suffer the same effect of jewelers and thats without considering the recipe that will further dilute them.

The fact that people need hundreds of jewelers and get 10 of each every 6 socket items makes them unviable to be used as currency. Because nobody wants 1 or 5 or 10 and nobody offers more than that for an item either.

To me the game should assign their own exchange ratio through NPCs and if people think that something is worth more than what the npc pay, them its their problem to trade it for more with other players.

BUT ITS THE FUCKING GAME'S FAULT TO SET UP THE MINIMUM VALUE OF EACH ORB. And for orbs to get a minimum value, there has to a be a way to bridge shit orbs to valuable orbs. 10 to 1, 20 to 1, 50 to 1, 100 to 1, whatever.

Right now, they are not worth anything.


The idea is to cap the minimum value of shit orbs such as wisdom, portal, transmutation, augmentation, alteration, chromatic

Its only situational, rare occurance that one players is in desperate need of alteration orbs, or chromatic orbs, or wisdom orbs and even then, the guy dont need enough or pay ridiculous low. Like that dude trying to buy 100 wisdom scrolls for 1 alchemy orb. When I can get 1 alchemy orb from the npc with 14 or so wisdom scrolls over and over. This keep them being worthless because everyone has a fucking stockpile of these.

People will rarely trade for 10 gold, or 20 gold, or 40 gold.. it doesn't make those denominations worthless.

Right now, people tend to trade one for one.

So whatever does not feel like worth "One", is worth "Zero".

The most valuable items are worth a few "Ones".

Pretty much nothing that is worth "Zero" is traded. Many "Zeros" are not worth a "One" either.

Any trading involving "Zeros" is not worth the socialization package of troubles either.

Unless we are talking about rare situational trades that are offered by players. Not by NPCs.

Right now everyone has a huge stockpile of worthless "Zeros".

Most currency is worth "Zero", the currency system does not flow. Currency has no liquidity. The npc trades "Zeros" for "Zero". Not "zeros" for "One". Neither does it trade "One" for "Zeros" properly either.

THAT IS THE TRUTH. THE AMAZING CURRENCY SYSTEM. THE FALSE GOD.

Read the Beta Manifesto and tell me they didnt miss the mark by miles.


The absolute majority of the time you are dropping/dealing with "Zeros" that will forever remain so.


They thought that they could prevent inflation by making it so everything was worth "Zero". But once Open Beta hits they will get a wake up call beyond anything they could test. "Ones" will be more "Ones" than ever and "Zeros" will be more "Zeros" than ever.

I think you are a touch melodramatic about the situation, Interesting.

Majority of drops in all ARPG's are worthless, never traded, vendor fodder if anything.

All ARPGs with gold except Diablo 2 prove you wrong.

"

Interesting wrote:

All ARPGs with gold except Diablo 2 prove you wrong.

Not sure what you mean by this, I can assure you that TQ/D2/TL/Sacred.. a huger percentage of drops were completely worthless (other then you could sell them for gold, which eventually became pointless).