FLAILS

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AceNightfire wrote:

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caboom wrote:

sort of far shot for melee attacks as implicit (more damage the further away is the object being hit)

base weapon range of 8-9
low min with high max damage
very slow attack speed.

Flails do not have a large range. It's usually as long as a two-handed weapon (or shorter). So you will probably only have 6-7 range. Low Min, high max damage and low attack speed is already covered by maces/axes.

That's why I'm asking. If GGG goes for flails, it must have something that makes them special compared to the other weapon types. If they are just maces/axes with a different appearance, then I doubt it's worth working on this new weapon class.

Don't get me wrong: I'm always for new stuff, as long as it makes sense. So if you have a good idea what would make flails special, then go for it.

that realy depends on the type of flails, some ere quite long


olso i mean realy big gap between min and max dmg, like lighting damage
50-160 with 0.9-1.0 attack speed.

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caboom wrote:

that realy depends on the type of flails, some ere quite long


olso i mean realy big gap between min and max dmg, like lighting damage
50-160 with 0.9-1.0 attack speed.

Well, take a look at this 2hand sword:



Pretty much the same range (if not even greater) then your flail. So giving it a higher range would be unrealistic maybe.

About damage: Could be possible. But the question is, if someone would use it. Lightning spells work, because they always come with fast cast speed, so even if the first hit does min damage, the next hit will probably do more or max damage. But with an attackspeed of 0.9 - 1 the damage is just to unrealiable and then there really need to be some good nodes to convince players to use this. Like a big passive node that gives you 20% armor penetration with flails and maybe a node that gives you +1 to weapon range. Because otherwise your clearspeed would be extremely bad (you never know if your first hit will kill the enemy or not). This could work, but it would require alot of rework of the marauder/dualist/templar passive node area. That's why I question the weapon so much. It needs to have a good use, something that makes it unique compared to other weapons and enables players to create new builds. For example there is not so much difference between axes and maces and most players choose one of the weapons because the position of the nodes are better for certain builds. But there are only a handful builds that really work only with maces or axes. A stunlock build would be a good example for a build that only works with maces, but that's not enough to justify a weapon type in my opinion. But since axes and maces existed already, no one complains. But if it comes to new weapon types, I just think we should try to create something that really sets it apart from already existing weapons.

Flails were predominantly a cavalry weapon which due to the chain were capable of heavy damage quite quickly once you got momentum up but needed alot of skill and practice to use.
So I think they would be real cool to be a heavily dex based fast mace that would chain its damage up with each hit, duel wielded flails too would be insanely sick.

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Qualanqui wrote:

Flails were predominantly a cavalry weapon which due to the chain were capable of heavy damage quite quickly once you got momentum up but needed alot of skill and practice to use.
So I think they would be real cool to be a heavily dex based fast mace that would chain its damage up with each hit, duel wielded flails too would be insanely sick.

Well. Why not make flails really unique then? Why not give them a mechanic that is really new?

If a flail needs to build up momentum, it would make sense that it starts with a very low attack speed, which increases with every attack until it reaches a maximum of attackspeed stacks.

Example:

1. Flails start with around 0.8 attack speed (extremely low)
2. For every auto-hit or attack you have recently done, you gain 10% attack speed. Since it's recently, the attackspeed buff lasts 4 seconds and refreshes when doing another attack/auto-hit
3. This buff can stack up to 10 times, giving you up to 100% attack speed. This buff does not however increase your base attackspeed because otherwise attack speed nodes and other things like frenzy charges would give you to much attack speed. 100% seem much, but given the extremely low base attack speed, the influence is not so extreme and you need to do alot of attack to get that attack speed.

Like mentioned before, flails would have an extreme wide damage range. Even bigger then maces. This way, the flail is very unreliable because of the low attackspeed at start and the huge damage range. But on the other side, it has the highest damage potential.

I know that this would be a very unique mechanic compared to other weapons, but I think it makes this weapon type by far more interesting and really enables certain kind of builds.