It's time for preleveled/preascended characters to enter the shop or be made available somehow.

@JohnKeys

This was already suggested.

@Khalixxa

This is a false dichotomy fallacy.

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Xtorma wrote:

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When it's taken into consideration that PoE has very few actual fully 'new' players coming around, the whole scenario begins taking on a different look. The majority of players showing up for new leagues/expansions are players who are returning and have 'been there done that' all before, usually multiple times.

There's nothing new to be learned, nothing much that hasn't been seen and the player base may vary in the time they're able to spend in PoE, for the most part will cruise through to level 60 with the same ease.

We all need to face the reality that 99% of the possible playerbase for this niche game has been and left, been and returns for a few weeks during new leagues/expansions OR the few who hang around perpetually.

GGG even went so far as to truncate the zones so that everyone could race up to maps quicker because the 1%ers complained it took too long.

I guess if there actually were hordes of true newbie players coming along all the time, GGG might find it worthwhile to work on the leveling experience some, but there's only few. Less and less as time goes on.

Considering this game is built upon the pyramid economy concept of the lowbies farming currency orbs for the elites in exchange for higher gear, it's a pickle for sure.

How do you have any idea that any of these statistics you have thrown are anywhere close to true? I don't mind people using statistics, but I do expect them to be able to back them up.

I ran my own business for many years, and my father before me, and I remember something he told me when it came to employees. The day one of your employees makes the statement that there is nothing else to be learned, is the day you set them free to prove it.

Prove me wrong.

I didn't make the claim, you did. Until you come up with some proof you are just another person pulling statistics out of their ass to try and bolster their points.

Without stats, you can only guess what anyone not on the forums is thinking/feeling/doing about the game. There is no "being right" if you assume you know one way or the other. You can say how you think, what you feel, and what you do, and maybe anecdotally add what your friends are doing (assuming you aren't just making that part up), but anecdotal evidence is not statistical evidence, so it doesn't go very far.



It really isn't important how many new players are joining if the older ones are leaving for the wrong reasons:
-tired of leveling
-limited content
-no social interaction other than trading (if you can even count that) and trolls in general chat
-devs constantly designing against the 0.01% of top players rather than trying to make the most enjoyable experience for everyone

Really, anything they could fix, but don't, is something that should be questioned. I know they're trying really hard not to turn the game into a another "f2p2w" game, and I can respect that, but some of their other values basically boil down to stubbornness that hurts the game in the long run--especially wanting it to be a "hardcore" experience when lots of players don't want that from it (most evident with Labs); there is room for both sides of that coin. It feels shitty to have it forced upon you.

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Albinosaurus wrote:

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Legatus1982 wrote:

I'm sure it probably does, just like some people RMT, but that doesn't mean we open a website for cash trades because some shady minority of people are doing it anyways.

He wasn't talking about RMT or shady deals. He was talking about people buying help with in game currency or using the existing rush methods to get to 60 asap.

Besides that, it's not "abuse" to start a character at level 60 just because you found a piece of gear that enables a build. That's not any different than starting a new character at level 1 for the same reason, except that the level 60 character skips the bullshit leveling process.

It is an abuse, because there is money involved in it.

For example, if you were to trade 50 chaos to get boosted to 60 by your level 80 buddy, that would not be an abuse, it'd be a service. Assumption being you farmed that 50 chaos yourself. If you were to RMT for 50 chaos and then use that 50 chaos to get boosted, that is a violation of GGG's TOS.

What is being suggested here amounts to RMT, really.

I agree with your premise that leveling is boring, but really most efficient players get to 60 in about 8 hours or less, so what's the big deal? Just take a day to level your new toon.

I'll tell you that in EVE online, which I play often, I have given up on the grind altogether and when I need more ISK to buy ships or modules/ammo I just buy plex and sell it on the market for a billion isk. Because in 1 real life hour at work I make enough to buy 2 billion isk, but in the actual game I'd barely make 1-300 isk grinding out some really boring shit. And that boring shit is actually more boring than my actual job.

It's going to end up being the same here, but honestly the leveling process in this game isn't nearly as boring as farming asteroids in EVE. It's kind of interesting to see what ways people can come up with to level faster, and there are races and such, so it's not entirely a waste of time.

Actually, now that I think about it, I'd be totally ok with this as a currency sink.

Like, right now we have respec bandits for 20 regrets. Maybe we can do level 60 pre-ascended character of your choice for 60 regrets. This would basically make things about the way they are now and save people who hate leveling from having to level.

And without the RMT/pay2win, which is the important bit. I still don't like the idea because I still feel like someone will find a way to abuse this in a yet-unthought of way, but it's a fair compromise until then.

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Legatus1982 wrote:

Actually, now that I think about it, I'd be totally ok with this as a currency sink.

Like, right now we have respec bandits for 20 regrets. Maybe we can do level 60 pre-ascended character of your choice for 60 regrets. This would basically make things about the way they are now and save people who hate leveling from having to level.

And without the RMT/pay2win, which is the important bit. I still don't like the idea because I still feel like someone will find a way to abuse this in a yet-unthought of way, but it's a fair compromise until then.

The thing is compromising for the sake of trying to appease all parties never leads to the intended affects, it leads to a stale product that "neither side" enjoys.

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goetzjam wrote:

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Legatus1982 wrote:

Actually, now that I think about it, I'd be totally ok with this as a currency sink.

Like, right now we have respec bandits for 20 regrets. Maybe we can do level 60 pre-ascended character of your choice for 60 regrets. This would basically make things about the way they are now and save people who hate leveling from having to level.

And without the RMT/pay2win, which is the important bit. I still don't like the idea because I still feel like someone will find a way to abuse this in a yet-unthought of way, but it's a fair compromise until then.

The thing is compromising for the sake of trying to appease all parties never leads to the intended affects, it leads to a stale product that "neither side" enjoys.

Says you

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Albinosaurus wrote:

@Khalixxa

This is a false dichotomy fallacy.

If it's a false fallacy, then it's true, right ?
gg

He has a valid point there, you do not bring anything, might care developping your point of view ? ( for a change, I could be surprised I guess but I'm not expecting it ).

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goetzjam wrote:

The thing is compromising for the sake of trying to appease all parties never leads to the intended affects, it leads to a stale product that "neither side" enjoys.

I kinda feel your point there, but you will need to explain it to convince peopel ( if you care to ).
It's impossible to please all parties anyway, those guys ( not all, granted ) always QQing in the feedback section will always find something to QQ about ( and there will always be room for improvment, so room for suggestions, however most of them .... are not great to say the least ).

Like, I can think of two reasons why GGG has not posted here :
- They are not sure of what to do ( seriously doubt it )
- They are sure that they do not want this to be implemented ( most likely imho ), and they don't say it because why would they make some potential customers eventually leave by telling them "no, we won't do this" ? It's better for GGG to let them speculate and hope, they will potentially play the game longer.

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Albinosaurus wrote:

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Pyrokar wrote:

I can get behind this with two added restrictions:
- 3-4 weeks into the league, so that people racing have to start from lvl1 if they die in hc, because a lot of people like to watch rips and rerolls on twitch and some economy factors.
-Only available if you have already had 20 characters leveled into merciless in your account. This is for new players to experience the game and lore, not copy the best streamer build, clear the aforementioned restrictions and then have free reign to do any build they want and quit in less than a week. This suggestion is for old players who have done the normal->merciless a lot of times.

The first restriction would hinder softcore players just to prevent something that shouldn't happen in HC at all, because the suggestion just doesn't fit into the point of HC. I don't think it's appropriate. Either way, 3-4 weeks is just too long. It took less time than that to get sick of leveling and essentially stop playing in the first place.

The second one makes a little more sense, but I don't think you need to play through the story 40+ times to experience it. Honestly, after your 2nd or 3rd character you have already seen what it has to offer, and whether the requirement is 20 characters or 200, there's nothing stopping new players form just grabbing a fast, efficient leveling build to just plow through it if that's what they want to do. The fact that character customization is left up to the player makes it so there is no way to force them to experience it a certain way.

And yes, I agree that making it a paid-for option would make it more enticing to GGG, and I'd be happy to skip most of the requirements outright and just pay for the option, but there are plenty of trolls and whiners here who somehow think their subjective idea of "p2w" means it's automatically a bad feature.

Ah, it was you i wanted to quote not turtledove. Anyway i am putting it in the OP and changing title. If you want to remove it let me know.