Death Penalties

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LimitedRooster wrote:

For the five millionith time, I've died to sync. While grinding in the completely harmless Cove zone. This isn't even counting my derpy idea to be "safe" in a party, and have my computer and guy choke to death on the lightspam.

My character is a solid 2 or 3 levels behind where she should be by this point.

The EXP penalty has the following effects:

* Grind grind grind. In boring safe areas.

* Don't have fun unless you have nothing to lose. Want to have fun today? Too bad. Should have had it yesterday when you had the chance.


Whatever. I reject it completely. If I wanted to play like I was in hardcore, I'd be playing hardcore. If there were another option out there nearly as good, this one thing would be enough to make me move on.

Add a death tax (50% less exp for the next 15%. Oh mah gawd it'd matter if you died at 0%) if you must, but the death theft is wrong.

QFT, softcore league should be really a softcore. As i wrote in the another thread, all people dont have +6 hours to play everyday nor are the best players ever. I believe the xp penalty can even drive people away because it can be so frustrating to novice players. Besides if there was no death penalty(or something smaller) the SC league would even allow people to build some really interesting and fun new glass cannony builds and stuff that would actually differ from HC builds. I myself use other peoples HC builds or something similar with 300% hp on SC. Why? because i dont want to die. So how is SC different from HC? I dont know, and i neither see any reason to play on HC unless you are going for top10. Also, again, if you arent the best player ever, the strategy is following; on merciless you farm ledge forever, then you try to progress in the quest line, get few bars of xp, die and decide to go to the ledge again to get the rest of the level, and this happens over, and over, and over again.

This is 2013 and gaming community has changed, before no one whined about anything because everyone were so amazed how awesome this new type of game is.
If you are a hardcore player, play hardcore. Dont think the talk about xp penaly should concern any players who play on HC aka. stop mocking people who want to get different gaming experience from SC.

the actual death penalty is kinda big, the game is already kinda ''very hard mode on'' which

on top of that, losing 15% xp is really a big headshot especially when u actively doing maps...

some mods are just insanely effective and when u reached lvl 75 +++ xp starting to be kinda

hard to get especially if u hardly get 70+ maps.

i propose scaling the xp penalty from the total xp gained in that level (player level)to a maximum of 10%.

i actually loved the repairing system that diablo 2 has, but instead of gold, maybe u can

whetstones and armorer scraps to repai??? even getting a 1% quality penalty on one piece of armor???

or maybe shards ????

Was debating in another thread and had an epiphany.

The problem with the softcore death penalty isn't that it's overly debilitating. It's not.

The problem is that it's irreparable. Once you get hit with it, you will never, ever have as much experience as the alternate-timeline, didn't-die version of yourself. This is something it shares with the hardcore death penalty.

I think the softcore death penalty should be something that's sufficiently difficult to rectify, yet still ultimately reparable in such a way that your character can catch up to that alternate-timeline version.

That item-deletion penalty I thought of qualifies, but it's way too debilitating of a penalty for the general population... I don't have any other bright ideas, and I think most of the suggestions for this are not sufficiently difficult (merely picking up a currency is probably too easy).

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

Was debating in another thread and had an epiphany.

The problem with the softcore death penalty isn't that it's overly debilitating. It's not.

The problem is that it's irreparable. Once you get hit with it, you will never, ever have as much experience as the alternate-timeline, didn't-die version of yourself. This is something it shares with the hardcore death penalty.

I think the softcore death penalty should be something that's sufficiently difficult to rectify, yet still ultimately reparable in such a way that your character can catch up to that alternate-timeline version.

That item-deletion penalty I thought of qualifies, but it's way too debilitating of a penalty for the general population... I don't have any other bright ideas, and I think most of the suggestions for this are not sufficiently difficult (merely picking up a currency is probably too easy).

Put "death shrines" in, regaining like 70% of the XP you lost. Or something like that.

ie: the way D2 did it

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topcatti wrote:

QFT, softcore league should be really a softcore.

What does this mean? So if I choose not to play on hardcore where I lose my character on the first death, I then have to play a mega easy mode? Softcore doesn't need to be so "soft" that I can die on purpose and not care.

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topcatti wrote:

As i wrote in the another thread, all people dont have +6 hours to play everyday nor are the best players ever.

I really don't see what this has to do with anything. You can play for an hour a day and still be a savvy enough player to not die a lot and lose tons of exp. The exp penalty doesn't even do much until your in merciless and even then it only hurts if you die consistently.

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topcatti wrote:

I believe the xp penalty can even drive people away because it can be so frustrating to novice players. Besides if there was no death penalty(or something smaller) the SC league would even allow people to build some really interesting and fun new glass cannony builds and stuff that would actually differ from HC builds.

You mean builds that a) die on purpose and zerg rush bosses over and over or B) stack all magic find because why not? dieing means absolutely nothing.

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topcatti wrote:

If you are a hardcore player, play hardcore. Dont think the talk about xp penaly should concern any players who play on HC aka. stop mocking people who want to get different gaming experience from SC.

This issue is not a hardcore verses softcore issue. I don't care at all about hardcore. This also isn't about a different optional gaming experience. Removing the exp penalty would change the game for everyone.

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Autocthon wrote:

Put "death shrines" in, regaining like 70% of the XP you lost. Or something like that

ie: the way D2 did it

Corpse recovery... get 66-75% of experience back. This is probably the best solution I've heard in awhile.

Unfortunately this would make full party map groups even rarer than they already are. No more portal = no corpse recovery.

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iamstryker wrote:

So if I choose not to play on hardcore where I lose my character on the first death, I then have to play a mega easy mode? Softcore doesn't need to be so "soft" that I can die on purpose and not care.

A death penalty does not make the game any harder. You already died because of difficulty/lag/whatever. You are already dead. The XP penalty is applied after the fact, and has nothing to do with difficulty.

If the penalty was not applied, the game is made no easier because of it, you're simply not saddled with backwards progress.

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TheSwampDog wrote:

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iamstryker wrote:

So if I choose not to play on hardcore where I lose my character on the first death, I then have to play a mega easy mode? Softcore doesn't need to be so "soft" that I can die on purpose and not care.

A death penalty does not make the game any harder. You already died because of difficulty/lag/whatever. You are already dead. The XP penalty is applied after the fact, and has nothing to do with difficulty.

If the penalty was not applied, the game is made no easier because of it, you're simply not saddled with backwards progress.

If the death penalty does not make the game harder, why do so many people whine about not being able to level up? If the goal is to level up then the death penalty is most certainly making that goal more difficult to achieve for people that are not good at living. Again if leveling up is the goal and the penalty were not applied it would be directly easier to level up. To say that the death penalty does not make the game harder is false. It does not make the monsters hit harder, it does not make them move faster, but it does make it harder to attain your goals of leveling up... else you wouldn't be complaining about it.

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topcatti wrote:

[
QFT, softcore league should be really a softcore.

I would agree. Good thing there is no Softcore league in PoE. If there was a softcore league though, I agree it should be really softcore....

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thepmrc wrote:

[ To say that the death penalty does not make the game harder is false. It does not make the monsters hit harder, it does not make them move faster, but it does make it harder to attain your goals of leveling up... else you wouldn't be complaining about it.

It is not false. It doesn't make the game ANY harder, it just makes it take longer.

Take a typical MMO raid boss. If your party wipes to him, he is no more difficult on repeated attempts. Subtracting progress already made does nothing to increase difficulty, just grindiness.

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If the death penalty does not make the game harder, why do so many people whine about not being able to level up? If the goal is to level up then the death penalty is most certainly making that goal more difficult to achieve for people that are not good at living. Again if leveling up is the goal and the penalty were not applied it would be directly easier to level up. To say that the death penalty does not make the game harder is false. It does not make the monsters hit harder, it does not make them move faster, but it does make it harder to attain your goals of leveling up... else you wouldn't be complaining about it.

You are mixing difficulty and time investment.

People whine because their time invested is nullified, not because they died based on the game difficulty.

XP penalty on death punishes time invested. It does not make the gamer any harder. There is no difficulty in leveling up, it is just a matter of time.

The best way I can explain this to you is this : if my goal is to level up, I will not go in merciless until I'm lvl 56+ and then I will bottom farm with at least 5 levels above recommended. Using this method, leveling is super easy, almost no difficulty and no risk of death, however my time investment will be much higher than if taking the risk to play at recommended level in Merciless.

The game is already very unforgiving of mistakes in Merciless, you already lose a lot of time from just dieing over and over which should naturally make someone understands they are not yet ready. Further punishing their time investment in the game is detrimental to most people enjoyment.

I can already guarantee you that most people reaching Merciless and not gaining XP for over an hour of play because they died a few times are not going to stick around. I'm pretty sure GGG is also aware of that statistic.

Heavy XP loss on death is an old mechanic that should never have been brought back in a game. There are other ways to make someone understand they need to stop dieing and must improve.