Mechanical Questions Thread

I'm confused cuz this explane as "This is the same for ignite and shock". Huh, ty.

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adghar wrote:

Ignite has no minimum duration requirement. As long as you are dealing any amount of damage in the Ignite, the Ignite will occur

same interaction with The Three Dragons helm, when ignition is outcome from cold damage?

have question on shield charge

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Mark_GGG wrote:

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torand wrote:

What all affects shield charge movement speed? Movement speed modifiers, and attack speed modifiers (At least from the faster attacks support gem) seem to. What about base attack time of weapon, attack speed on gear or tree?

Movement speed modifiers and Attack Speed modifiers. Where they come from is irrelevant.

but only local increased Attack Speed on weapon is calculate like "More" Attack Speed for shield charge

is that intends ?

and here my other question

How Guardians sharing charges works with additional charges?

Example:

We party with those charges (e/f/p):
Guardian 3/3/3
Raider with +1 frenzy charge

Do both have 4 Frenzy charges?

2nd example, party with:
Guardian 3/3/3
Raider 3/4/3
Juggernaut 4/3/3
Occultist: 3/3/4

How many charges each person in the party has?

Does Windripper's magic finding mods work with totems? AKA Does the apply if I use ranged attack totem to kill monsters?

Seems like it would since there is no mention of "you killing" or anything like that.

Someone tell me what double dipping is and how it affects poison. I'm confused. Google doesn't help.

Poison is now scaled by 16% phys and chaos damage of the initial hit. It's double what it was before. So what did they actually change when it comes to Poison?

Now when it comes to ignite the DoT doesn't get scaled by initial hit anymore but then where the Ignites flat damage comes from? Does it have a set base value depending on what the skills damage is at level 1 and from there it is scaled by damage multipliers from passive nodes?

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hellzer wrote:

Someone tell me what double dipping is and how it affects poison. I'm confused. Google doesn't help.

...So what did they actually change when it comes to Poison?

Double dipping as the majority define it is the property of one bonus applying twice to a given stat. Suppose you have a certain source of damage P and some source of 20% increased damage. P is multiplied by 1.2, then multiplied by 1.2 again, or the final damage is P(1.2)^2. This is also why some more academic forum posters call it quadratic scaling, because applying a bonus twice is the same as having a bonus squared, more or less.

Mark_GGG mocked up a pair of images I personally thought was brilliant comparing 2.6 and 3.0, not sure if you ran into it on your Googling: https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1897612/filter-account-type/staff/page/1

Just scroll to the very bottom of the posts and you'll find a bunch of images.

To try with words, 2.6 and before calculates the base damage of Ignite, Poison and Bleeding based on the final (after modifiers) hit damage, which already includes certain modifiers like generic damage and projectile damage when applied by projectiles. Those bonuses then apply again when calculating bonuses to that damage. In short, some bonuses applied to just hit, some applied to just DoT, and some applied to both, but bonuses to hit are transferred to the DoT, so applying to both allows some bonuses to be extra efficient for no outwardly apparent reason.

In 3.0 we will still have bonuses that apply to just DoT, just hit, and both, but instead of DoT being based on final hit, it's based on base damage before any damage modifiers come into play, separating the calculation so that double dipping is no longer possible.

If you know programming or math pretty well, I'd describe it as 2.6 calculating in sequence while 3.0 calculates in parallel.

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Poison is now scaled by 16% phys and chaos damage of the initial hit. It's double what it was before.

This is known as a "compensatory buff." Sometime, game developers must dramatically change how the game works, which may make some existing ways of playing the game much weaker. If the developers still want those ways to be strong, they can then adjust an unrelated part of the game to make the change less dramatic. This is the case here; doubling the base damage has no direct relationship with the double dipping changes, but was a matter of judgment in how to keep derived DoTs impactful without breaking the game.

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Now when it comes to ignite the DoT doesn't get scaled by initial hit anymore but then where the Ignites flat damage comes from? Does it have a set base value depending on what the skills damage is at level 1 and from there it is scaled by damage multipliers from passive nodes?

No.

It is sort of still based on initial hit, but instead of being based on the results of the hit, it's based on the source. Hopefully my explanation above was good enough for that.

Quick Ignite example:
Fireball lists 100 damage on its gem description
Ignite deals 20% of hit per second
50% increased fire damage
100% more elemental damage
Enemy has -20% fire resistance

2.6:
Hit: 100 * (1.5) * (2.0) * (1.2) = 360 fire damage dealt
Ignite: 0.2 * 360 * (1.5) * (2.0) * (1.2) = 259.2 fire per second

3.0 without compensatory buff:
Hit: 100 * (1.5) * (2.0) * (1.2) = 360 fire damage dealt (aka unchanged)
Ignite: 0.2 * 100 * (1.5) * (2.0) * (1.2) = 72 fire damage per second

3.0 where Ignite deals 40% of base per second:
Hit: 100 * (1.5) * (2.0) * (1.2) = 360 fire damage dealt (aka unchanged)
Ignite: 0.4 * 100 * (1.5) * (2.0) * (1.2) = 144 fire damage per second

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RayManzarek wrote:

I'm confused cuz this explane as "This is the same for ignite and shock". Huh, ty.

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adghar wrote:

Ignite has no minimum duration requirement. As long as you are dealing any amount of damage in the Ignite, the Ignite will occur

same interaction with The Three Dragons helm, when ignition is outcome from cold damage?

Yes.

The wiki is not correct. I will see if I can fix it soon, or someone else might come and fix it too.

You can test these statements with a ring or gloves with x-y added fire damage, by the way :)

EDIT: I have removed Ignite from that wiki page.

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Nishrek wrote:

How Guardians sharing charges works with additional charges?

Example:

We party with those charges (e/f/p):
Guardian 3/3/3
Raider with +1 frenzy charge

Do both have 4 Frenzy charges?

2nd example, party with:
Guardian 3/3/3
Raider 3/4/3
Juggernaut 4/3/3
Occultist: 3/3/4

How many charges each person in the party has?

Guardian passive only has to do with the gaining of charges, not the storing of charges, so nobody's maximum charges change. Also, all characters are able to "gain a charge" even at full charges. This makes it, to me, very simple. Whenever one party member attempts to gain a charge, they all do, up to their own character's maximum.

So, supposing we start at:
Guardian 3/3/3
Raider 3/3/3

Any one of them gaining an endurance or power charge will refresh the duration but not change the charge count. If Guardian or Raider gains a frenzy charge, it will be:
Guardian 3/3/3
Raider 3/4/3

At that point the frenzy behavior will be the same as with endurance or power charges. They will refresh duration but no change in count.

Note that I am only 99% sure about this answer as opposed to 99.9999% sure as usual, so you may want to wait for a second opinion or test it in game yourself :)

Hello!

Many of us were discussing boot enchant weighting lately, and we're curious if the following statement/datamined info is correct:

"Ele Pen" and/or "added chaos damage" are the rarest enchants to get on boots while the rest are equally weighted.

http://poedb.tw/us/mod.php?type=enchantment&an=boots

Is this factual and are the percentages close to being right?

Thanks for your time!

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Sir_Katie wrote:

The question I have is about map drop rules. There seems to be a great deal of confusion as to what happens when the game chooses a tier of map for which the player has no maps of that tier unlocked or adjacent to the current map.

For example, I'm in a shaped strand (t11) and a map drops. The game rolls the tier, and applies the atlas bonuses resulting in a t12 map. However, I have no t12s unlocked on my atlas and there are no t12s adjacent to shaped strand.

What happens in this case? There seem to be two conflicting ideas:

1. the map is 'downgraded' to a t11, effectively increasing the absolute number of t11s dropped
2. The map drop is forfeited, having no impact on the absolute number of t11s dropped.

there is no confusion. if you have no t12 you will get a t11 instead.
read dev questions/answers part 4. it's there. https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1883471