I need advice for planing my dual wielder's defenses

"

ivkoto77777 wrote:

"

link1313 wrote:

You aren't sacrificing anything because if you don't have those two up your taking 50%+ more damage and it only takes one death to ruin the character.

That's not true, since Enfeeble and fortify don't work additively and curses have a diminished effect on bosses. I think that with 60% reduced curse effect that bosses have enfeeble provides 12% reduction.

Thanks for the idea though. I was planning on using poacher's mark on blasphemy. How do you generate frenzy charges?

My mistake, still 12% reduction is good. and the crit multiplier being lowered from 130% or whatever monsters have to say 114% if its 60% reduced can stop one shots.

I get my frenzy/endurance charges from gladiator node (25% main hand frenzy / 25% off hand endurance.

"

Snorkle_uk wrote:

"

link1313 wrote:

One thing I would recommend is not to link fortify to your movement skill only and not to link your defensive curses to cwdt. You want fortify on main skill and defensive curses (mainly enfeeble) on blasphemy.

I disagree with this tbh, Id do the exact opposite.

Why? Id say the opposite for standard but for hardcore why not as a melee build.

"

link1313 wrote:

Why? Id say the opposite for standard but for hardcore why not as a melee build.

because it takes up a gem slot and an aura slot. So take out fortify, put it on a second attack, now put in blind. Put enfeeble on cwdt and then put on grace aura instead.

whats giving you more defense?

enfeeble + fortify

or...

enfeeble + fortify + blind + 7k evasion?


not that I would use blind, Id use a damage gem even in hc because Id value killing the monsters quicker even from a defense perspective. But in theory if you are talking about giving away a gem slot and an aura to defense why use them both on defensive buffs you already have without using the aura and the gem? Thats how I look at it, I just see it as defensively gimping yourself.


But then, Ive used pcoc gems in main skills, and theres people who would never use a pcoc gem in a main skill for exactly the same reasons. I like pcoc, crit strikes has maybe replaced it in a lot of setups tho. Whatever floats your boat I guess.

"

Bars wrote:

Going with Snorkle here. Getting Champion with a melee has always truck me as a particularly wasteful and lazy option. For example, you could get Gladiator and have 50% block/spell block with a reasonable investment.

The thing is that Acrobatics grants me 40% dodge and 30% spell dodge with minimal investment(it is on the way to the dagger & shadow starting nodes), and at that point champion seems like the best defensive ascendancy(I can get vaal pact and trump the leech from the other duelist ascendancy).

"

Bars wrote:

The slayer also offers some unique and more beneficial options, for example his leech buffs are often overlooked. Juggernaut and Berserker also offer unique benefits you can't get otherwise.

I've always been a great fan of flickerstrike - faster attacks - fortify. Much quicker smoother than whirling blades, autotargets, closes the gap to your target, great setup overall. I use it with all melee builds which don't have a chance to miss.

I love the Juggernaut's defensive potential, but I won't be able to reach the dagger nodes starting from him. If I ever get my hands on a 300+ dps crit sword I'll try out that version :)

"

ivkoto77777 wrote:

"

Bars wrote:

Going with Snorkle here. Getting Champion with a melee has always truck me as a particularly wasteful and lazy option. For example, you could get Gladiator and have 50% block/spell block with a reasonable investment.

The thing is that Acrobatics grants me 40% dodge and 30% spell dodge with minimal investment(it is on the way to the dagger & shadow starting nodes), and at that point champion seems like the best defensive ascendancy(I can get vaal pact and trump the leech from the other duelist ascendancy).

Champion gives perma upgraded fortify, for 4 ascendency points. You can get that from whirling blades + fortify for 2 gem slots. Your third champion ascendency will probably be outmatch and outlast, which is pretty decent.

Duelist gives painforged, which gives 8% additional block after getting hit (4% with acrobatics) and 40% inc damaged if not hit. Dual wield base block is 15+8 from painforged, you end up with 12% spell block from versatile combat.
You now have 40% dodge, 30% spell dodge, 12% block and spellblock, compared to 40% dodge, 30% spell dodge, 7% block and 0% spell block.
You also have a huge damage boost thanks to gratitous violence.

Champion only makes sense defensively if you can't get fortify through melee attacks, like in the case of bow users in HC.

I don't like the concept, nor the actual gameplay of using whirling blades/leap slam to apply fortify. But thanks for the suggestion anyway :)