Hey GGG... give us a great treat on World Labyrinth day (May 7th) - Nothing from GGG

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Arrowneous wrote:

 WTF!!! Are the only players posting now all uber elites? You all have overleveled Izaro by 15+ levels and are only wanting harder Izaro. I'm sorry and all but fuck that thinking!

I killed Merciless Izaro at level 67 and with 1.8k HP / 600 ES last time. It's possible. Also no other defenses to speak of (character was about to go CI, wearing Tabula Rasa).

Was it hard? Yes. Was it impossible? No. Would I do the same thing with melee? No.

But come oh, he is not that hard.

Besides that, zone level == character level (with some tweaks to (map) drops and XP scaling) would be nice.

Yeah like removing it from the game forever , this will be the best .

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Char1983 wrote:

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Arrowneous wrote:

 WTF!!! Are the only players posting now all uber elites? You all have overleveled Izaro by 15+ levels and are only wanting harder Izaro. I'm sorry and all but fuck that thinking!

I killed Merciless Izaro at level 67 and with 1.8k HP / 600 ES last time. It's possible. Also no other defenses to speak of (character was about to go CI, wearing Tabula Rasa).

Was it hard? Yes. Was it impossible? No. Would I do the same thing with melee? No.

But come oh, he is not that hard.

Besides that, zone level == character level (with some tweaks to (map) drops and XP scaling) would be nice.

1% or less uber elite super skilled players such as yourself that come in here and post (brag?) about how you killed Merc Izaro with a level 67 build are outliers and thus are not within the majority of players build and playing skills. Therefore you do not count.

"Outliers" are values that "lie outside" the other values.


Edit: In general (not just Izaro) I've always viewed the "difficulty factor" as needing to be directly tied to our exile's level. The whole concept of maps and difficulty factor is such that we are in a constant state of this map is "too easy" or this map is "too hard" and most of the time the "just right" level of difficulty is un-achievable. Izaro just magnifies the problems of content difficulty "balance" and by the time we get to Merc Izaro he spanks us down hard (for most) if we try to take him on head-to-head with a level 68 build.

Most threads on Izaro tend to state that you need to outlevel the zone by 10 levels to make it through all 3 Izaro fights. In doing this (setting the Izaro difficulty bar that much higher than the zone) it makes him a super tough fight (which is definitely what GGG and most players want) but by knowing this and thus waiting to make the run until we are 10+ levels above the zone then all the zone content is trivialized and a boring face roll run to get to him. That imbalance is very bad in the Lab and just reflects the much bigger game balance problems that have always plagued PoE.

I've also had replies stating that it would be impossible for GGG to sync the content difficulty to the exile level. I find that hard to imagine that the Talosian overlords of Wraeclast can't come up with a better way to sync exile level and content difficulty better.

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Arrowneous wrote:

1% or less uber elite super skilled players such as yourself that come in here and post (brag?) about how you killed Merc Izaro with a level 67 build are outliers and thus are not within the majority of players build and playing skills. Therefore you do not count.

"Outliers" are values that "lie outside" the other values.

No worries, I know what outliers are without looking something up ;). I am pretty sure of not being a 3-sigma outlier and most likely not a 2-sigma outlier either. Maybe a 1-sigma one. Slightly more into being challenged than the average crowd. I just found leveling in the lab more interesting than running in circles in Dried Lake, so I went to the lab. Took a few tries until I could do it.

Anyways, I am not exactly super skilled or anything. I just had a build that was able to put out decent damage and then tried the dodging game. It eventually worked. However, even on a more "normal" build and not boosted with items from previous builds, you can do the normal lab at level 35-40, the cruel one at level 55-60 and the Merciless one at 70-75. That is a bit over the zone level, yes, but it would be boring if Izaro was too weak. It is one of the interesting, fun fights left in this game. If you have a good build or good items or good skills, you can do it at the zone level.

And if you have a weak build / slow reaction times / bad items, you just outlevel the zone a bit and get your ascendancy points a bit later. Not really a big deal, is it?

Now I do think that the lab could be significantly improved, but I do not think that making Izaro easier is going to make it any better at all.

Ohh! They could do the world a big favor. They could make the shittiest labyrinth ever made simply go away and remove it from the game! One can only hope. I'll be checking in May 8th.

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Siochan wrote:

Ohh! They could do the world a big favor. They could make the shittiest labyrinth ever made simply go away and remove it from the game! One can only hope. I'll be checking in May 8th.

 Only if GGG can come up with another way for exiles to earn the Ascendancy points. This is doable but extremely unlikely to happen with all the coding, artwork, testing, and debugging time invested into The Labyrinth. GGG did take out a nice wide open zone in Act 2 on our travels to the Western Forest but The Labyrinth and Trails of Ascendancy took a significant amount of time to create so scrapping it out is not going to happen.

 I am suggesting that GGG move Cadiro Perandus and his p-mobs into the Lab in June. There is so much good he brings to most for providing exiles with build enabling gear that it would be a shame and a serious mistake for them to remove Cadiro entirely. But hey, GGG has never been the smartest of arpg designers and one must always be fearful of our Wraeclast Talosian overlords using virtue gems on themselves. These experiments on themselves could easily lead to the entire destruction of PoE. That would be very sad if that happens.

tl;dr - I can't beat the lab so here's this arbitrary holiday/date(?) as a reason to make it easier for me...

0/10

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StDrakeX wrote:

tl;dr - I can't beat the lab so here's this arbitrary holiday/date(?) as a reason to make it easier for me...

0/10

Hmmm... Other than the need to over level Izaro by 10 levels (which I hate and think is wrong... outliers don't count) he really isn't any better or worse than any of the other Act 4 bosses. At least Normal and Cruel Lab should be doable and that is what counts in the subclass. The last 2 points (defeating Merc Izaro) are not as important but more of a frustrating chore than an enjoyable challenge.

For example, now that I have 4 Templar subclass points I can cast 3 fire totems (Hierophant) to go with my Magma Orb main skill. That makes all the difference in the world to be able to have 3 totems instead of 1 out in front to shield my exile from the charging mobs.

So Ascendancy subclasses are important for many endgame viable builds.

Ok, so you are in the "Lab sucks" camp. But eventually you should have a high enough exile to beat Normal Izaro at least. There is no way anyone wants a walk in the park easy boss. However Merc Izaro is way overtuned for me and is Uber Izaro.