SET FREE THE ASCENDANCY POINTS (or rework the lab) [New ascension methods/lab rework ideas]

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Regulator wrote:

or are so willingly ignorant and egocentric that you prefer to keep making fool of yourselves rather than accepting simple things.

Ignorance and foolishness, this sentence aside and it is a truly horrible sentence, who foolishly can't accept simple things? I hated the first lab run I did on HC; it was ridiculous, time consuming, and a little stressful. I'v done maybe 30 or so of them now and I can seriously say it's moderately enjoyable now that I have some experience with it. The lab is pretty simple so the cry-fest you have on here everyday, where you insult everyone that thinks it's a good bit of content with a meaningful purpose, is a lot more foolish than pointing out the obvious fact that the labyrinth was added as a gate to Ascendancy and it has a perfect purpose in the game.

For purposes of this post I'll coin two new terms. Pro-lab and con-lab, the reason is that "white knights" seems to be a term that seems insulting to some people for some reason and I want to try to use something that people won't be insulted by.

Summary of the discussion

* Con-lab argument is that trap game play in Labyrinth is boring tedious and not fun. Therefore, it would be worthwhile if an alternative method for gaining ascendancy points was considered by GGG.

1. The pro-lab counter argument was that the Labyrinth only takes 5-10 minutes to run and so it is not worth doing anything about or even complaining about it.

The con-lab argument was that 5-10 minutes is the time for fast enchant/racing runs through the lab. Based on the ladder times, the average time for ascendancy runs through the lab appears to be closer to 45-60 minutes.

There has not been any further relevant argument presented by the pro-lab side for this point.

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* Con-lab argument is that trap game play in Labyrinth is boring tedious and not fun. Therefore, it would be worthwhile if an alternative method for gaining ascendancy points was considered by GGG.

2. Another pro-lab counter argument was that ascendancy points are optional and therefore not needed.

The con-lab counter was that Chris himself has stated that ascendancy points are not optional. While it is true that at the present time monsters and general PoE content has not yet been beefed up to balance ascendancy points, Chris has stated that that will soon be done. Also, ignoring a major character development aspect is not the way that RPG games are generally played.

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* Con-lab argument is that trap game play in Labyrinth is boring tedious and not fun. Therefore, it would be worthwhile if an alternative method for gaining ascendancy points was considered by GGG.

3. Another pro-lab counter argument was that there are an insignificant number of people that dislike Labyrinth. Only about five people are posting on the forums saying that they dislike Labyrinth.

The con-lab counter argument to that was that we now have seen many more individuals voicing their dislike for the Labyrinth. A straw poll on this forum about the Ascendancy Release in general had three straw polls; one for Labyrinth, one for Ascendancy, and one for Enchantments. The straw poll vote for Labyrinth indicates a 60% dislike of Labyrinth.

The pro-lab counter argument was that people voting in the straw poll are going to generally have an inclination to dislike Labyrinth compared to a true random sample from the general PoE population.

Further con-lab analysis of the straw poll indicates instead of 60% disliking Labyrinth that a reasonable floor for what the general user base might still be 40% but an exact figure is difficult to determine. Although there seemed to be acknowledgement from the pro-lab side that there was probably a significant number of people that dislike Labyrinth.

Of course, GGG is the final arbitrator for deciding whether or not the number of people disliking Labyrinth is significant enough to warrant consideration of a change.

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* Con-lab argument is that trap game play in Labyrinth is boring tedious and not fun. Therefore, it would be worthwhile if an alternative method for gaining ascendancy points was considered by GGG.

4. Another pro-lab counter argument was that ????? (Feel free to add another that I forgot) ?????

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Potential solution, should GGG decide to consider doing something regarding this.

My feeling is that the best potential solution involves leaving Labyrinth exactly the way it is. Then providing a new quest after Malachai is killed. This new quest would only be offered if the character hasn't already ascended for that difficulty level. The quest would be to kill Izaro. This new kill Izaro quest would not involve traps. The character would, of course, only be able to ascend once either through the Labyrinth or through the new kill Izaro quest. The new kill Izaro quest would not provide enchants nor any other special Labyrinth unique chest/loot/doors/etc.

Regarding the potential solution, here's some minor changes. Provide a new quest after Malachai is killed. The quest would be to kill Izaro. This new kill Izaro quest would not involve traps. The character would, of course, only be able to ascend once either through the Labyrinth or through the new kill Izaro quest. The new kill Izaro quest would not provide enchants nor any other special Labyrinth unique chest/loot/doors/etc. I would assume that the new kill Izaro quest would not have any portals to town allowed similar to Labyrinth.

A potential nice things about this quest is that if someone wanted to practice killing Izaro, they could use this quest rather than Labyrinth, assuming that they aren't interested in enchantments.

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Dos_Fafner wrote:

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Regulator wrote:

So so audacious and ignorant it hurts my brains, here take a look at this and for fucks sake let this be the last time i link that. Its the podcast with Chris Wilson, go to 39minute and hear up to 40minute to understant if labyrinth is optional or not. Thats coming from the lead developer of GGG mind you (incase your are honestly that naive)

Chris implies it is not as optional as Atziri. He does not say "Obviously Ascendancy is essential to gameplay" so the fact that you read a lot more into his comment than what he actually said indicates a clear point of view bias on your part. The only thing he strongly expressed was a desire to see more feedback on layouts from the community posted to Reddit.

It also very much sounded like there was nothing resembling even a remote desire to remove Ascendancy from the lab or to shorten the lab in anyway whatsoever.

This is pretty funny. You dismiss what's been said just because it wasn't said exactly how you wanted it to. Logic implies that the developers would want us to get the new feature they have been working on for so long, because if we don't do that and treat it as optional, then there is nothing new for players to come back for, is there?

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Pyrokar wrote:

Logic implies that the developers would want us to get the new feature they have been working on for so long, because if we don't do that and treat it as optional, then there is nothing new for players to come back for, is there?

Perhaps this is what your logic indicates but it is not what the developers have logically concluded in the past. Reference: highest tier maps, Atziri, RNG-gated bosses, etc. The game has been about exclusion from day 1 and people have always complained about that.

Till 80+ maps start raining from the sky I'd say it's safe to assume the developers are OK with people not experiencing some of the content. Furthermore, if you listened to ANYTHING that Chris said before or after that 20second interval, he in no way implies they are going to change the lab in a manner that would make this particular group of people stop complaining. He also outright says that the majority of the new player base each league doesn't even make it out of Act 1 normal before quitting, so most people will never even see the lab at all.

There is high level content and there is content for everyone. What you mentioned are all examples of highlvl and it's obvious that lab is something you do as you level in order to get the asc points.

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goetzjam wrote:

OP still doesn't know how to use White Knight term properly. [Removed by Support]

The denial is real.

@MisterER

Actually, I agree with the white knight -- Regulator does not know how to use the term "white knight" properly.

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

@MisterER

Actually, I agree with the white knight -- Regulator does not know how to use the term "white knight" properly.

I think I understand the what Regulator meant when using the term "white knight". I didn't know what the generally accepted term might be (besides the old definition of someone that is coming to the rescue of a young maiden). So, I looked it up in the urban dictionary.

White Knight
A gaming term used to describe a male gamer who, in a desperate attempt to get himself laid, will attempt to woo or impress any female gamer he comes across online by being overly defensive of her and giving her special attention, such as playing as a healing class and only healing her.
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=White+Knight

Although I don't think that is what Regulator means when he uses it. :-) I think he just means someone that thinks that they are being a hero coming to the rescue of PoE.

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Turtledove wrote:

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

@MisterER

Actually, I agree with the white knight -- Regulator does not know how to use the term "white knight" properly.

I think I understand the what Regulator meant when using the term "white knight". I didn't know what the generally accepted term might be (besides the old definition of someone that is coming to the rescue of a young maiden). So, I looked it up in the urban dictionary.

White Knight
A gaming term used to describe a male gamer who, in a desperate attempt to get himself laid, will attempt to woo or impress any female gamer he comes across online by being overly defensive of her and giving her special attention, such as playing as a healing class and only healing her.
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=White+Knight

Although I don't think that is what Regulator means when he uses it. :-) I think he just means someone that thinks that they are being a hero coming to the rescue of PoE.

Not that is of any importance but white knight's initial meaning was someone who defends someone elses honor no matter what, based purely on emotions or orders, without thinking why himself. With the passing of time it might have more meanings but the basic notion still remains the same, which is emotion trumps logic and reason. If you are an old gamer you would know that if not its ok, you just learned something new.

But why is that of any importance? New orders ? New round of no-argument-lets-attack-in-person ? Find something that has some validity and dont try to degrade the thread with irrelevant bullshit.

On topic : still trying to find all the suggestions regarding the rellocation of AC points, when i do ill put them on the OP