SET FREE THE ASCENDANCY POINTS (or rework the lab) [New ascension methods/lab rework ideas]

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Fruz wrote:

We will see in 2.5.0 if something happens ... and after in 2.6.0 too.

There is no 2.6, it will go to 3.0

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goetzjam wrote:

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Fruz wrote:

We will see in 2.5.0 if something happens ... and after in 2.6.0 too.

There is no 2.6, it will go to 3.0

ah right lol, then 2.5.0 and 3.0.0

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Fruz wrote:

^
I have no idea about actual numbers, and I think that only GGG actually does.
If they were about to loose 10% of the playerbase due to the lab, they would have done something about it already imo.

Players who quit the game usually do not leave a note saying why they did. So not even GGG will know how many already left. Not too many yet I guess ...
But my point was that a smart company will take action *before* they leave.

I'm among the 2nd group you mentioned: I can do the laby and did it for several chars, but I dislike it so much that I even skip the trials in the maps (and those easy 5-10c for the offering). It is simply no fun for me. And we all play games to have fun, right ?

I have a question: some traps can be avoided, but there are also some (eg. the spike fields) where you inevitably must take some of the damage. Is that correct ? Or did I miss something ?

I think that there is always a safe route, without needing to jump, so theoretically, you could go through without taking damage I think.

And I think that if the lab would make a significant portion of the player base leave, it would have happened already ( meaning we would have noticed it by having the game population decreasing ).

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Fruz wrote:

I think that there is always a safe route, without needing to jump, so theoretically, you could go through without taking damage I think.

I have my lightning warp, so jumping counts as a safe way.
But let's take a looong path of spike fields, 2 fields wide, alternating diagonally. How can I get through that unhurt ??

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Fruz wrote:

And I think that if the lab would make a significant portion of the player base leave, it would have happened already ( meaning we would have noticed it by having the game population decreasing ).

Uhmmm... where in- or outside the game can you get an impression of the game population ?

Yes, there are seemingly unavoidable trap sections in the lab. What about them?

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Pyrokar wrote:

Yes, there are seemingly unavoidable trap sections in the lab. What about them?

Except there really isn't with perfect play. Show me videos or detailed screenshots and I will believe it.

Keep in mind you can use an array of movement skills to avoid the traps or seriously minimize damage if you happen to come across them.

How is it possible to get lost in a single sentence?

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goetzjam wrote:

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Turtledove wrote:

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Fruz wrote:

No.
I will answer to you as long as I see you try to spread those lies.
ARPG means Action Role Playing Game, period.
If we take the wikipedia definition :

That is the definition of ARPG not ARPG game play.

ARPG GAME PLAY is kill monsters get loot. The trap game play is not ARPG game play. It is not kill monsters get loot game play.

ARPG GAME PLAY is kill monsters get loot. The trap game play is not ARPG game play. It is not kill monsters get loot game play.

ARPG GAME PLAY is kill monsters get loot. The trap game play is not ARPG game play. It is not kill monsters get loot game play.

ARPG GAME PLAY is kill monsters get loot. The trap game play is not ARPG game play. It is not kill monsters get loot game play.

Is that enough spreading for you? BTW, it is not a lie.

Following that logic neither are masters.

I agree, for some of the master missions at least.

And those are the missions which are the least fun. And, according to anecdotal evidence at least, the least popular. It's not a coincidence.

That said, I don't think it is a crime to deviate from conventional pseudo-isometric ARPG gameplay (that should be sufficiently qualified to satisfy Fruz), assuming that the new gameplay is done well; that is to say it does not aggravate already existing weaknesses in the game (such as those connected to netcode or control scheme), it synergizes well with existing content and gameplay, and--most importantly--it is fun.

I posit that the Labyrinth has failed all three of the above conditions.

But a pragmatic response to this (even by a lab fan) would be to examine the population which does not find the Labyrinth fun, and then figure out why they find it unfun, and to do so without (to use Fruz's favorite term) "bad faith." (Assuming that all players criticizing the Labyrinth are looking for free handouts or do not like it because it is too difficult and they want an "easy mode" is one such example of "bad faith.")

This is something that a Labyrinth fan is capable of, and can do to help GGG, if in fact you are interested in helping GGG and not just in helping yourself.

It takes an hour to do norm/cruel/merc/uber labs, all of them. What's the problem?