SET FREE THE ASCENDANCY POINTS (or rework the lab) [New ascension methods/lab rework ideas]
" Too easy. Any alternative way of ascension that doesnt include a Labyrinth run, would have to be much more difficult / time consuming than doing it as intended. Else it would just invalidate all the Labs, up to Uber. When night falls
She cloaks the world In impenetrable darkness | |
" While a good first effort, the answers you provide seem to assume that people are being disingenuous when they say they find the Labyrinth boring, unrewarding, or more like work than like play. You imply that the real reasons they dislike the lab are elsewhere. That really doesn't get us anywhere. When people say their opinion is ABC and someone else says, "You are lying, the truth is your opinion is actually XYZ, and here is my theory as to why you feel that way," the discussion doesn't move forward at all. Have a second look at the REAL question ("Why do players feel ABC?") and you'll see that all four of your provided answers don't even make sense. Wash your hands, Exile!
|
|
|
How there are definitely things about the lab complains that are disingenuous, I have no doubt about that.
And we got many "trap gameplay is not fun". It is then only natural to try finding the difference between trap gameplay and gameplay that those people actually like, to understand. My 4 points came from this, basically. They all make sense. Some of them have been specifically said by lab complainers, like the first, second and fourth onee. The 3 one is more an opinion of mine of course. SSF is not and will never be a standard for balance, it is not for people entitled to getting more without trading.
| |
" Which one of them makes sense in response to the following question? "Why do players find the Lab boring, unrewarding, and or job-like, and don't feel the same way about other parts of the game?" Because I am looking at each one of those four answers, in turn, and each one is 100% a non-sequitur in response to that question. Also: " Accusing a viewpoint of being a lie is useless, as I already said. And when you aren't even addressing a specific person but calling an entire viewpoint a lie, you are denying that the viewpoint even exists. It quite obviously exists, so that's just going straight back to the strawman I referenced in the first place. I'll say it again: The meat of the issue is not whether people find it boring, unrewarding, or more like work than like play. Because people obviously do. The meat of the issue is WHY do they feel that way? Wash your hands, Exile!
|
|
" * The Lab can't be "boring" and have deadly trap gauntlets at the same time * The Lab can't be "unrewarding" and have great mob density & chest drops in Merc/Uber * The Lab can't be "like work", if it's a realtively short expereince, compared to all the other grind Deadly trap gauntelts, great mob density and awesome rewards (Merc & Uber) are objective properties of the Labyrinth. You can't argue them. The third point is more subjective, but we can still compare the "workload": -> getting your 6 (six) Ascendacy points at lvl 80 == ~1 hour of /played -> getting your char to maps == 10-15 hours of /played -> getting your char to lvl 90 == 80-100 hours of /played -> getting your char to lvl 100 == 250-1000 hours of /played -> levelling your masters to lvl 8 == ~1 month of time Lab is sooo much "work" -_- TLDR: Yes, some people are being disingenuous and some are actually outright lying / clueless. When night falls
She cloaks the world In impenetrable darkness | |
|
This is going nowhere and end up being pure rethoric that is just a waste of time here imho, so quickly :
Nothing non-sequitur, you are not bringing anything but saying "you are wrong", essentially. As I have saiad right before, 3 of those 4 points have been specifically said as reasons to the why, by many lab complain posts. This IS the why ( of part of it ) for many people. " I am sorry, but this is just plain wrong, if something is a lie, that's what you just wrote. And it's about as useful as what I am answering right now. Some people's feedback look like they have no idea of what they are talking about ( not all of course ), which is a good reason why it ( at least partly ) invalidates their said feedback ( sometimes it actually isn't one then ). SSF is not and will never be a standard for balance, it is not for people entitled to getting more without trading.
| |
" What you really mean to say is the following, because it more closely addresses the question: " It's a single word change, but as you can see it changes the meaning completely. (It also is necessary for it to be logically relevant.) So, allow me to assume that that's what you actually meant to say (tell me if I am wrong). "The lab can't feel XYZ." And yet it does. *I* find the lab boring. *I* find the lab unrewarding (disclaimer: talking about Merciless lab, specifically). *I* find the lab more like work than like play. And I have read variations of the above written by many dozens of different people. (Or many dozens of accounts created by a single individual, if you believe goetzjam. I don't.) So one of the following statements is true: 1. I am a liar. 2. Your premises are incorrect. Wash your hands, Exile!
|
|
" Sigh. I feel like I am insulting your intelligence by spelling this out, like I'm about to do. Please forgive me. Consider the following questions and answers. A) Why does John find the Lab boring? B) Because he can't overgear to prepare for the traps. A) Why does John find the Lab boring? B) Because he can't save his progress. A) Why does John find the Lab boring? B) Because he has to think, and he can't brainlessly zerg everything on the screen. A) Why does John find the Lab boring? B) Because he has technical issues. Forget fucking rhetoric, and answer one simple question: Which of the above 4 makes sense? Wash your hands, Exile!
|
|
" If you put "Maybe" in front of all the answer, then they all do. Boring is a purely subjective thing anyway, and I bet everybody has at least some part of PoE that feels boring. SSF is not and will never be a standard for balance, it is not for people entitled to getting more without trading.
| |
" Rewards in form of drops & XP/hour are objective metrics, your feelings can't change facts. Therefore if someone says Lab is unrewarding, I call it pure BS. If the short Lab experience already feels like work for you, then I cant fathom how painful is the rest of the game. The grind can go into hundreds of hours / char. And instead of "boring" maybe you meant "annoying"? Because you can't really call boring the deadly trap gauntlets and one of the best boss fights in game, coupled with one life / try. You certainly aren't watching TV, during a lab run, are you? If Lab is boring, the rest of the game has to be killing you... esp. the very easy parts = whole levelling process. When night falls
She cloaks the world In impenetrable darkness |
