Summoners, get in here

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konfeta wrote:

Um. You cannot apply multiple versions of the same support gem to a skill. That's not a little known fact, that has been a fundamental mechanic of the game since before 9.1.

Uh... ah... didnt know that, i'm new to the beta. After reading again, you're right, it's already stated deep in the mechanics thread.

Yeah, i like fast moving ranged spectres too. Sadly i dont have that chaos or multishot gems now, but instead i'm using a lightning one, which almost doubles the damage my zombies do. But when i read your post - is that the way to go on later levels? Just use the Zombies as a meat shield with as much as possible life (faster run + added life support gems) and let ranged spectres do the work? Interesting...

Think i will do some more test on that "multiplicative with other support gems or not" question.

Next thing i wondered is the hit chance of my minions. I testet with lvl 32 (Zombie lvl 8) in a lvl 28 area and the zombies missed close to 50%. I think i'll do some more testing with a accuracy gem.

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konfeta wrote:

Another important question is which way going to produce the most efficient and fastest killing zombies? Stacking up +% life for biggest explosions, or stacking them up as Cracklings of the Starcraft fame? Or somewhere in between?

As i'm playing hardcore there is no question about that. They have to protect me, espacially against hard hitting rares/bosses so they need to have as much life as possible. As i already wrote - at least when they die i can be sure alsomst everything around them is dead too. Safety >>> killing speed



Sorry about my english, its hard to talk about number crunshing when you are no native speaker ;)

After noticing a lot of misses i tested the influence of a hit support gem with my zombies. Sadly there are no tools to count things so the following is based on manual counting - how oldschool :-)

first question is: Whats the base of your minions hit chance?
Your character level or the level of your gems? I tested this with a lvl 5 and a lvl 10 zombie gem. Hit chance is going down A LOT (~35% to >50% misses in a lvl 33 zone), so its save to assume that the zombies base hit chance depends on your gem level.

Maybe i go back to that spot in a few levels to check the influence of your characters level.


next question: How usefull is a hit gem?
I tested this with a lvl 10 zombie gem and a lvl 1 hit gem (76 accuracy rating) in lvl 28/30/33 zones. Without hit gem i had 29/29/35% misses, with hit gem a had 17.5/20/25%. This means a rough 10% damage increase - not that bad. Dont take this numbers to serious, its just based on 10 kills each (hard to get single mobs), but enough to get an idea.

Sadly the hit support gem is a green one so you cant reach higher levels. Also no question about using it over blue elemental/40% damage support gems - they are a lot better. But for min/maxing reasons you can get a nice bonus at least around lvl 40 - if you have a linked green socket spare.

Something i forgot about. If you are going for the easternmost minion cluster and use a kill spell like Detonate Dead, you can spend an extra 4 points for the power charge chain just below. The 4 nodes:

* +10 to Intelligence
* +8% increased Mana Regeneration Rate Per Power Charge
* Gain a Power Charge when a Minion Dies
* +1 Maximum Power Charge

With this, you can get total maximum 3 power charges, for 150% increased critical strike chance and +24% mana regen.

Just got back from holiday, currently looking for some feedback. I'm not a GGG employee in disguise, honest.

>.>

<.<

/fedora

Anyway - I'm wondering how people (read: summoners) feel when entering an instance for the first time and therefore have no summons. How do you find killing mobs without any assistance? I find it can be extremely taxing, especially if I get a rare mob or a cluster of blues which take more hits than I can reasonably dish out before I'm swarmed.

Minions following you from zone to zone might alleviate this, but it doesn't help if you've just logged in or otherwise don't have any minions.

Adding another point here: How does everybody find 'aggro'? I find that mobs tend to gravitate towards me if they 'see' me before they 'see' my zombies - which happens very frequently if I run ahead of them. However, if I let the zombies run around of their own volition, there's no problems (except that they get lost and I have to find them).

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Dreggon wrote:

I'm wondering how people (read: summoners) feel when entering an instance for the first time and therefore have no summons. How do you find killing mobs without any assistance? I find it can be extremely taxing, especially if I get a rare mob or a cluster of blues which take more hits than I can reasonably dish out before I'm swarmed.

I'm only 42, so i can't comment on higher levels. Have a feeling you might be talking about chaos, which is another beast entirely. However, to this point i can't recall a single time i had issues getting started in a new zone. I kill 1 mob with my linked Ice Nova + Knockback, summon a zombie, and from there i just let my minions take over.

If you are having issues, may i ask what you are using as your "first kill" spell? You could also consider using a curse (e.g. Temporal Chains) if you don't already. I don't use it for those first kill spots, but it would help.

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Dreggon wrote:

Minions following you from zone to zone might alleviate this, but it doesn't help if you've just logged in or otherwise don't have any minions.

When minions follow you it will be a non-issue because you'll be able to raise minions at e.g. Mud Flats and then waypoint to your actual zone.

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Dreggon wrote:

Adding another point here: How does everybody find 'aggro'? I find that mobs tend to gravitate towards me if they 'see' me before they 'see' my zombies - which happens very frequently if I run ahead of them. However, if I let the zombies run around of their own volition, there's no problems (except that they get lost and I have to find them).

I generally just follow my minions wherever they go. If you have something on you you could turn on Phase Run. I always use maximum increased movement speed boots as well, so you could consider that if you don't.

Both first kill and aggro can be simplified by the same skill: "Frost Wall".

I played until merciless act 2 (hardcore league) so far. The first one or two mobs after zoning should be pulled VERY carefull, but Frost Wall is a good way to give you some breath if necessary (e.g. fire resistant blues as first mobs). By using Firestorm you can attack them behind the wall - easy. I never had problems this way, just learn when you have to kite/wall and when you can tank them.

Same way when you get aggro. If you can tank them just kill the mobs. If not, use Frost Wall. Mobs switch aggro when the path to you is completely block. When not completely blocked there is some random element(same like fleeing humanoids when burning).

For first kill I use either Fireball or Firestorm. I don't currently have a gem slot free for Ice Wall; need to replace my gloves, offhand and probably boots. And...

Actually I want to replace everything.

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Dreggon wrote:

Just got back from holiday, currently looking for some feedback. I'm not a GGG employee in disguise, honest.

>.>

<.<

/fedora

Anyway - I'm wondering how people (read: summoners) feel when entering an instance for the first time and therefore have no summons. How do you find killing mobs without any assistance? I find it can be extremely taxing, especially if I get a rare mob or a cluster of blues which take more hits than I can reasonably dish out before I'm swarmed.

Minions following you from zone to zone might alleviate this, but it doesn't help if you've just logged in or otherwise don't have any minions.

No matter what summons you use, you should have a skill with supports for killing those first few mobs.

I use Firestorm, and have no trouble getting those first kills. Even if it is a special character I encounter when stepping out of the transistion.

I thought not having minions follow through zones would be a problem, but now I don't want this mechanic to change.

If they do allow minions to follow you everywhere, they will have to nerf them. Since you would always have the maximum number of minions out at once.

Since the first mob is always an easy kill (unless you have maximum bad luck and encounter an elemental reflect aura), it is better to have these powerful, useful minions, than some lesser cannon fodder versions.

Afterall, only one mob needs to die. Then no matter how many or though the others are, you will get more minions once the first one dies (/blows up).

You would also be able to resurrect only the most powerful ranged minions and have them supported by multiple projectiles etc. And they would follow you through a lot of maps before they died. Then you could go back and re-aquire. Which would make one specific minion the one everyone wanted to bring with them. Thus removing diversity.

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Dreggon wrote:

Adding another point here: How does everybody find 'aggro'? I find that mobs tend to gravitate towards me if they 'see' me before they 'see' my zombies - which happens very frequently if I run ahead of them. However, if I let the zombies run around of their own volition, there's no problems (except that they get lost and I have to find them).

The zombies are bad at holding aggro, but if they did better, gameplay would not be as fun as it is now. I find that they hold most aggro now as well, with the exception of ranged mobs, but you still have to run around a bit for the zombies to pick up enemy mobs who's decided you looked better for luch..

It's not a complete coffiee drinker build, but definately not a kiting thing either. I find the balance is quite alright in this regard.

0.9.5g added a new keystone for the summoners: Necromantic Aegis. All bonuses from your Shield apply to your Minions instead of to you. It's only an additional 3 point investment from the central minion cluster. Sweet!

Edit: also, Hex Master now increases the maximum to 2 curses per target! Think i might go back to my HC Legacy summoner for a while. :)