Donald Trump

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Antnee wrote:

No policy specifics to be found, just "I will fix them". I loved, btw, that he will protect LG...........BTQ people from terrorists, like the GOP platform hasn't been their #1 problem for decades.

http://www.breitbart.com/tech/2016/07/21/thiel-gay-republican/

Thiel received a standing ovation for his speech. Try to keep up. This is no more the "old" GOP than Hillary's Democrats remotely resemble the party of JFK. =^[.]^=

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Raycheetah wrote:

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Antnee wrote:

No policy specifics to be found, just "I will fix them". I loved, btw, that he will protect LG...........BTQ people from terrorists, like the GOP platform hasn't been their #1 problem for decades.

http://www.breitbart.com/tech/2016/07/21/thiel-gay-republican/

Thiel received a standing ovation for his speech. Try to keep up. This is no more the "old" GOP than Hillary's Democrats remotely resemble the party of JFK. =^[.]^=

Right, because Thiel represents the vast majority of LGBT people in the country. Because the Current official GOP platform isn't thoroughly repressive. Because most of the fucking convention wasn't just meaningless platitudes with absolutely no policy behind it.

Ray, what the fuck.

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Antnee wrote:

Appeals to authoritarianism, strongman cult of personality, "only I can fix these things" (not, WE can fix these things together), painting the US as a wasteland of lawlessness, otherism, empty inflammatory rhetoric.

This man is fucking terrifying.

Within the first 2 minutes of his speech he said 'we...and I mean WE cause we're a team... got 14 million votes in the primary'. While I agree with most of the rest quoted, I don't think he's painting the US as a land of lawlessness - it IS that. We lock up non violent 'criminals' for victimless crimes. Wall Street CEOs who break multiple laws get no punishment, and in fact get to jump out of their office windows as they deploy the golden parachutes they got to keep. Hillary Clinton gets no indictment for something you KNOW you or I or anyone else not a millionaire would have been indicted for. 30% of her own party wanted her indicted for it.

Police officers do as they please and follow their biases and prejudices with no justice - their unions cover for them, their co-workers and bosses cover for them, law enforcement is currently operating lawlessly. And on the flip side you have people in the streets - right out in the open campaigning for and plotting out how to kill cops. This wasteland seems all to real. I wish it were just a picture.

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innervation wrote:

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GeorgAnatoly wrote:

Wish I could fast forward to the election, can't wait to see who 'merica picks.

Sanders vs Kasich would have been so much more compelling - the fallout from this election is going to result in both parties looking like what those two want anyway.

Or if Trump had run for the Democrats. No need for crazy talk, and the Dems would have loved to have a chest-thumping USA-shouter on their side for once. With Hillary's bad rep, and the weak sauce that were the other GOP candidates he could easily have had the election in his pocket.

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Jojas wrote:

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innervation wrote:

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GeorgAnatoly wrote:

Wish I could fast forward to the election, can't wait to see who 'merica picks.

Sanders vs Kasich would have been so much more compelling - the fallout from this election is going to result in both parties looking like what those two want anyway.

Or if Trump had run for the Democrats. No need for crazy talk, and the Dems would have loved to have a chest-thumping USA-shouter on their side for once. With Hillary's bad rep, and the weak sauce that were the other GOP candidates he could easily have had the election in his pocket.

Trump does so much better helping them on the opposing side. Hillary wouldn't have a chance of winning otherwise.

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innervation wrote:

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Antnee wrote:

Appeals to authoritarianism, strongman cult of personality, "only I can fix these things" (not, WE can fix these things together), painting the US as a wasteland of lawlessness, otherism, empty inflammatory rhetoric.

This man is fucking terrifying.

Within the first 2 minutes of his speech he said 'we...and I mean WE cause we're a team... got 14 million votes in the primary'. While I agree with most of the rest quoted, I don't think he's painting the US as a land of lawlessness - it IS that.

I see what you're doing (we'll talk below), but the facts don't line up with that sentiment at all. Crime- despite any blips or spikes- has been on the decline and there is no data to make a point to the contrary.

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innervation wrote:

We lock up non violent 'criminals' for victimless crimes. Wall Street CEOs who break multiple laws get no punishment, and in fact get to jump out of their office windows as they deploy the golden parachutes they got to keep.

Police officers do as they please and follow their biases and prejudices with no justice - their unions cover for them, their co-workers and bosses cover for them, law enforcement is currently operating lawlessly.

While I appreciate what you're trying to do, do you actually think this is what he's targeting? Do you think this is what his base is slobbering over?

He's pushing for authoritarianism and "tough-on-crime", not criminal justice reform. These two things have historically been polar opposites.

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innervation wrote:

And on the flip side you have people in the streets - right out in the open campaigning for and plotting out how to kill cops. This wasteland seems all to real. I wish it were just a picture.

a) Who? Politicians, or random dumb fucks on twitter?

b) The wasteland is not real. The media hypes it up, and whips people into a frenzy, and has been doing this since forever.

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Antnee wrote:

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innervation wrote:

Within the first 2 minutes of his speech he said 'we...and I mean WE cause we're a team... got 14 million votes in the primary'. While I agree with most of the rest quoted, I don't think he's painting the US as a land of lawlessness - it IS that.

I see what you're doing (we'll talk below), but the facts don't line up with that sentiment at all. Crime- despite any blips or spikes- has been on the decline and there is no data to make a point to the contrary.

3 of the 4 illustrations I used were examples of crimes going unpunished. Pointing to crime rates trending down doesn't refute this. Because unpunished crimes don't show up in the statistics.

You can say you 'see what I'm doing', but the fact is you cherry picked to suit your narrative. When he says "we", it's just a rhetorical flourish. When he says "I" it's authoritarian. Even though in the context of the speech, using "I" comports with reality a lot better. He was talking about things that would change in his first 100 days. Generally we credit the changes during a president's first hundred days to that president.

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Antnee wrote:

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innervation wrote:

We lock up non violent 'criminals' for victimless crimes. Wall Street CEOs who break multiple laws get no punishment, and in fact get to jump out of their office windows as they deploy the golden parachutes they got to keep.

Police officers do as they please and follow their biases and prejudices with no justice - their unions cover for them, their co-workers and bosses cover for them, law enforcement is currently operating lawlessly.

While I appreciate what you're trying to do, do you actually think this is what he's targeting? Do you think this is what his base is slobbering over?

He's pushing for authoritarianism and "tough-on-crime", not criminal justice reform. These two things have historically been polar opposites.

This is a strawman. I've argued here why America is an actual lawless wasteland. You can point to anything you like about Trump's intentions, none of them address whether the proposition is true or false.

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Antnee wrote:

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innervation wrote:

And on the flip side you have people in the streets - right out in the open campaigning for and plotting out how to kill cops. This wasteland seems all to real. I wish it were just a picture.

a) Who? Politicians, or random dumb fucks on twitter?

b) The wasteland is not real. The media hypes it up, and whips people into a frenzy, and has been doing this since forever.

For 'a' you can listen to audio and see video of hundreds of people at rallies shouting 'kill the pigs' and 'what do we want?' 'pigs in a blanket' 'when do we want it?' 'NOW' No twitter needed.

For 'b', go to Chicago, Baton Rouge, or Ferguson and tell them their concern, passion, and fear are illusory and that they're just a product of the media.

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Antnee wrote:

Appeals to authoritarianism, strongman cult of personality, "only I can fix these things" (not, WE can fix these things together), painting the US as a wasteland of lawlessness, otherism, empty inflammatory rhetoric.

This man is fucking terrifying.

No policy specifics to be found, just "I will fix them". I loved, btw, that he will protect LG...........BTQ people from terrorists, like the GOP platform hasn't been their #1 problem for decades.

Also funny that each representative boasted that their state was doing great, adding jobs, economy booming... but the US economy is somehow crippled and in need of repair?

Hows that work?

It's incredible thing to watch otherwise intelligent people surrender themselves to this.

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innervation wrote:

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Antnee wrote:

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innervation wrote:

Within the first 2 minutes of his speech he said 'we...and I mean WE cause we're a team... got 14 million votes in the primary'. While I agree with most of the rest quoted, I don't think he's painting the US as a land of lawlessness - it IS that.

I see what you're doing (we'll talk below), but the facts don't line up with that sentiment at all. Crime- despite any blips or spikes- has been on the decline and there is no data to make a point to the contrary.

3 of the 4 illustrations I used were examples of crimes going unpunished.

None of which are the targets for this (his) discussion. Trump isn't talking about tackling corruption in law enforcement when he's talking about a crime epidemic, and you know it.

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innervation wrote:

Pointing to crime rates trending down doesn't refute this. Because unpunished crimes don't show up in the statistics.

That is an unfalsifiable argument, and thus holds absolutely no merit. Anyone can make a similar statement:

"Unvideotaped sasquatches aren't counted in with sasquatch tapings!"

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innervation wrote:

You can say you 'see what I'm doing', but the fact is you cherry picked to suit your narrative. When he says "we", it's just a rhetorical flourish. When he says "I" it's authoritarian. Even though in the context of the speech, using "I" comports with reality a lot better. He was talking about things that would change in his first 100 days. Generally we credit the changes during a president's first hundred days to that president.

The overarching theme of his campaign is "I will do this, no one else can." He's not been talking about a specific handful of minor changes here, either. He's painting his candidacy as a massive societal swing in some unknown direction, which He will usher in, establishment be damned. Have you noticed the glaring lack of mentions of congress?

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innervation wrote:

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Antnee wrote:

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innervation wrote:

We lock up non violent 'criminals' for victimless crimes. Wall Street CEOs who break multiple laws get no punishment, and in fact get to jump out of their office windows as they deploy the golden parachutes they got to keep.

Police officers do as they please and follow their biases and prejudices with no justice - their unions cover for them, their co-workers and bosses cover for them, law enforcement is currently operating lawlessly.

While I appreciate what you're trying to do, do you actually think this is what he's targeting? Do you think this is what his base is slobbering over?

He's pushing for authoritarianism and "tough-on-crime", not criminal justice reform. These two things have historically been polar opposites.

This is a strawman. I've argued here why America is an actual lawless wasteland. You can point to anything you like about Trump's intentions, none of them address whether the proposition is true or false.

I'm curious to know if you know what a strawman is.

There's a huge leap between "has systemic issues" and "lawless wasteland." I fully acknowledge the former, and fucking laugh at the latter. Nothing supports it.

He is 100% authoritarian; has nothing but praise for Putin and Ergodan for "taking control" of things. Vladamir fucking Putin and Future Islamic Dictator Ergodan.

Please, for the love of fuck, tell me how he doesn't worship authoritarianism.

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For 'a' you can listen to audio and see video of hundreds of people at rallies shouting 'kill the pigs' and 'what do we want?' 'pigs in a blanket' 'when do we want it?' 'NOW' No twitter needed.

For 'b', go to Chicago, Baton Rouge, or Ferguson and tell them their concern, passion, and fear are illusory and that they're just a product of the media.

a) You know what, source. Angry independent rallies are not indicative of an overall feeling in the populace. There is giant difference between blips and trends.

b) Again, irrelevant considering that this is not what the focus of his law-and-order campaign is. You're WAY off the rails here.

I'm not even sure what the hell you're getting at, overall. What point are you trying to make with all this?

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GeorgAnatoly wrote:

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Antnee wrote:

Appeals to authoritarianism, strongman cult of personality, "only I can fix these things" (not, WE can fix these things together), painting the US as a wasteland of lawlessness, otherism, empty inflammatory rhetoric.

This man is fucking terrifying.

No policy specifics to be found, just "I will fix them". I loved, btw, that he will protect LG...........BTQ people from terrorists, like the GOP platform hasn't been their #1 problem for decades.

Also funny that each representative boasted that their state was doing great, adding jobs, economy booming... but the US economy is somehow crippled and in need of repair?

Hows that work?

An it's incredible thing to watch otherwise intelligent people surrender themselves to this.

It's baffling. I literally do not understand what is happening anymore on the "right" side of politics.

I fully understand traditional American conservatism; Religion is important, Government interference in business should be minimized, defense should be strong. Logical concepts, though I disagree with a lot of it. It makes sense.

Trumpism just seems like complete directionless anarchy to me. Less shaking up the system, more tossing the system out the nearest airlock.

I really hope the media clamps down and doesn't let go of his stance on NATO. All other things aside, his NATO comments are fucking frightening.