Map Changes in 2.0.4

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Chris wrote:

The tier change is something we've wanted to do for years and in our testing, it makes the map system easier for new players to understand. I just wish we'd launched with it like that.

Hey I just had an idea, and not to jack this thread, but can we get a recommended level on the maps? I know it's a subjective thing and would probably take some work to implement, but I think it would go a lot farther on helping new players than the tier system.

Here is how I see it: It would either show up when you hover your cursor over the map or you could add one more line under Q and R bonuses. Then each map would have a base recommended level just based on the average player with average equipment. For instance Tropical island (tier 1) is pretty easy for most players so it could have a base recommend of like 62 but dungeon (also tier 1) has a harder boss and might have a base recommend of 70. Then you just add a set amount for each mod on the map. For instance Double boss could add 1-2 levels, added resistances might add .2-.5 levels and all undead/animals/humanoids would add 0 levels.

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Uvne wrote:

XP difference between lower and higher zones is practically none, and the sole determinant of which zones one should play in rests with outrunning the inevitably-increasing XP penalties.

True!

Map drops have been buffed.

I ran the only tier 10 map I found during the 1 month and I got back a tier 5.

I know. I know at least it's not a tier 1.

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Chris wrote:

The tier change is something we've wanted to do for years and in our testing, it makes the map system easier for new players to understand. I just wish we'd launched with it like that.

so, what was holding you back?

The tier system for maps just doesn't fit PoE. If you would have launched with it it would have been wrong back then too. Yes there would have been less whining and more people would have gotten used to it. But this wouldn't have meant that it is the better (best?) system!

Everything in your game is about item levels and base items (drop levels). And new players learn this throughout the game. I don't know the numbers (may already provide us with it?) but you said only very few players get into maps and i have to agree with you.
You can't get into maps without reading about the game either on forums or on the wiki. Maybe also asking in gerneral chat.

For me your statement of "this way it's easier for new players" is null and void.

People already learned about itemlevels and then they get a tier 1 map at the beginning of act3. They may ask in chat what to do with it and learn to use it in the map device that you discover later in act3. The zone is 64, new players may be 66 there and then they try out this tier 1 map because at least i would think:

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Hey, i found the map so early and now can finally use it. Let's try it out. This is a cool thing for sure.

So they open up a 68 map which could be desert or could have act4 mobs in it. The map could also be blue or they even used an alch on it "for fun".

Most likely new players are also already struggeling in 64 zones.

Nowhere in your game (outside of maps) it is stated what zonelevel that map has! Please explain to me how, for a new player, this tier system is less confusing than the old one?

one other thing.

i think it was a mistake to leave the eternal lab where it is and saying you want to give people the choice of either progressing to act4 or running maps. it would fit very nice to where diala is in the crystal veins. This even IS a 68 zone.
Also maps should not be dropping before dominus at least (regarding a change in such a direction).

Chris, please.
Recognise that the map system in the current state failed! It was a mistake. People make mistakes. But please swallow your pride and revert the changes until you come up with a more thought through system (where you disconnect map tilesets from map level maybe).

The best of the three worlds could be :

- Keep the colors white/yellow/red (for Tier recognition)
- Indicate on the Map the ideal player's level (depending on XP return or GGG opinion) like "lvl 66-70"
- Let Zana being able to open MAPs corresponding to your "ideal level" so that when you have no more MAP pool you are still able to progress (especialy casuals who will make their daily Zana, hoping for -1/+2 Map drop).

And that's it !
Let's wait for Xmass wishes

Agree to above Hillda's wishes.
+ please fix map drop chance for yellow mobs.

T1-T3 are now dropping as expected (at lease for me) but lvl 71->up (T4->) unfortunately not.
I have 88 lvl marauder which I think is capable to run mid tier maps without problems but have no drops of that level.
All my alched T6 didn't drop +0,+1,+2.
Only from daily mission from Zana have a chance to get T6.

I'm a human - not computer to run 10000 maps to check that statistically drop is higher.
It is not. If I run maps 68-70 (for new character) then even running blue maps only there is no problem to accumulate 68-70 but it is not the case for 71+. They have to be alched at least to have better chance to get +0,+1,+2 map in return.
I'm now alch-ing all maps >70 and slowly my pool becomes empty. Only number of 68-70 is increasing.

Imagine... today I run 71 (T4) alched and in return got ONE 68 map from blue and THREE UNIQUE items from 2x BOSS - and no single map from two bosses???. Bosses drops uniques and no maps???. WTH???. It is really disaster to have such map drop quantity/quality. Don't tell me this is RND - it is mostly wrong scaling factor for RND or wrong location of point for 50% chances to get +0 map level on distribution function.
Currently my drop focus is on map itself - not the uniques :-(.

I'm single player only. Maybe drop rate for team of 6 players is higher - i.e team is capable to get +0,+1,+2 in return so from their pov the changes to drop rates is ok but it is not for single player.

GGG - what is the point for disabling end game contents for casual player? XP is now lowered not only by changing XP from mobs but also due to bad map drop - I'm forced to run lower tier maps as mids are very rare.

GGG please fix it. Please allow us to access end game maps.

By the way, could anybody here can try to explain or give an idea of "ideal level" per Tier ?

T1 starting lvl xx to lvl xx
T2 lvl to lvl
T3 lvl to lvl
T4 lvl to lvl
T5 lvl to lvl
T6 lvl to lvl
T7 lvl to lvl
T8 lvl to lvl
T9 lvl to lvl
T10 lvl to lvl
T11 lvl to lvl
T12 lvl to lvl
T13 lvl to lvl
T14 lvl to lvl
T15 lvl to lvl

Considering only one point : XP ideal return
(the difficulty depending on the Map affixes and the Map boss)

I'm getting maps up my ass now (and I don't even BELIEVE in chiseling - in other words I don't do it). can't say how the situation is above tier 8 cause I only ran like 1 9 and (thus) have never seen a 10. change the fucking recipe already so you can use 3 maps of one tier to get 1 from the next!

You can already do that....?

Maps up to T7/T8 are not a problem to sustain, alch-and-go and you are done. Even T9 seems to be sustainable like that. Above that, it starts to suck. T9 is six (!) levels away from the max level, which would not be so bad if rares could (and would, from time to time) drop +2 and bosses could drop +3, but they can't.

The problem are two things:

a) building a map base, that can be incredibly tedious
b) getting to the actually challenging content (T12+) on a somewhat regular basis without spending incredible amounts of money on Zana, fragments, chisels and rolling boxes

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Hillda wrote:

By the way, could anybody here can try to explain or give an idea of "ideal level" per Tier ?

T1 starting lvl xx to lvl xx
T2 lvl to lvl
T3 lvl to lvl
T4 lvl to lvl
T5 lvl to lvl
T6 lvl to lvl
T7 lvl to lvl
T8 lvl to lvl
T9 lvl to lvl
T10 lvl to lvl
T11 lvl to lvl
T12 lvl to lvl
T13 lvl to lvl
T14 lvl to lvl
T15 lvl to lvl

Considering only one point : XP ideal return
(the difficulty depending on the Map affixes and the Map boss)

http://pathofexile.gamepedia.com/Experience#Penalties
First and foremost, forget about f*cking "tiers" because xp penalties are defined by monsterlevel.

monsterlevel: min_player_lvl to max_player_lvl
66: 59 to 73
67: 60 to 74
68: 61 to 75
69: 62 to 76
70: 63 to 77
71: 64 to 78
72: 65 to 79
73: 66 to 80
74: 67 to 81
75: 68 to 82
76: 69 to 83
77: 70 to 84
78: 71 to 85
79: 72 to 86
80: 72 to 88
81: 73 to 89
82: 74 to 90