I am lucky, therefore game is fine

"

Vaux wrote:

Oh boy. Please refer back to my original post in this thread where I point out that this generation of gamers (whether you fall into 'this' generation by age or not) is incredibly entitled and doesn't like to work for success in video games (and is 100% true), and you promptly replied - berating me out of some misguided notion that you deserve my respect in a complaint post on the forums.

Spare me your high and mighty bullshit about how this thread isn't a passive aggressive way for you to bitch and moan about RNG and how life isn't fair and how everyone that disagrees with you is a villain.

disagrees about what?

I'm fully aware of the fact there are more than a few people here, who consider the "grind -> hoard -> trade" cycle more enjoyable than the prospect of risk/reward where tough monsters need to be killed for the better loot, and RNG and Trade Economy aren't so significant/dominant.
I disagree with them, but none of them is a "villain" just because they like RNG and trade.

you however seem to disagree about the topic of this thread.
you are saying "I do have every right to act like a dirt-bag towards other people, because they are - in my opinion - spoiled little entitled silver-platter-generation care-bears, and I know better because I'm hardcore!".

for people like you, there really isn't anything passive about the thread.
it is all-out aggressive in saying "no, you fucking don't!".
in telling you to show some respect towards other people.

and again, it's great that you volunteer in Shelters and help others in your day to day life - but if you are being a dick towards others in the forum for whatever goddamn "pseudo-elitist" reason, I do most certainly have a fucking problem with it.

"

consca wrote:

So john, is 75 days too long for you to get your guaranteed 6L?

Don't know about John but 75 days can be very long when you do nothing but farm the same boss over and over again. By the time you're done all the fun would be sucked right out of the game. Most people would give up way before that, because what's the point?
And when you keep doing different things that are less efficient you would be able to maintain the fun of it a while longer but it'd also take way longer to get that 6L.

But just in case you do that 75 days thing, there is still the question of which item to use it for. That's one piece of gear - which you already need to have otherwise it's pointless - and that item better be worth it. And in the end it means one build out of so many PoE has to offer.

The advice is not bad, but it's also a no-brainer: farm an easy, fast boss over and over again. And fuck fun. And if you're not willing to do that you're a lazy new-gen gamer with bad work ethics. Right.

I think the key to appreciating POE in the long run is to find that fun. The mostly mindless grind. There's a fair bit of delayed gratification -- you have to put off some things to achieve other things and in the long haul as well.

"

Temper wrote:

"

Miská wrote:

You still haven't answered my question John. If someone would post here they did not have a wisdom scroll drop in 3000h of playing you would believe them?

I would ..... if they supplied the honest information on the conditions that led to this possibility with such a low probability manifesting itself.

I can in theory play 5000 hours of POE from character creation right up to the first hostile engagement or breakable object,chest and ALT/F4 and never see a wisdom scroll.In theory I could do this indefinitely.

=P

True, but in a practical setting there's a strong occam's razor effect, in that the likelihood of a glitch/bug/etc becomes stronger the more improbable the anomaly. It's sort of a paradox when applying theory to practice because it introduces a new variable where the chance of a hyperoutlier being accurate becomes even more exponentially slim.

This is what Scrotie was alluding to, saying that in practical analysis you can say certain things are almost literally impossible and not merely theoretically highly improbable.

To get hyperpractical in the context of this specific game, you can easily say the odds of somebody missing a drop (exalted orb, etc) are more likely than the drop never happening.

"

davidnn5 wrote:

"

Miská wrote:

I disagree, i think life is 1 big lottery. You could calculate everything in life to chance. I've met my wife by chance, do you know how much different my life would be if i wouldn't have met her.

I survived a housefire when i was 5years old. There was a quite a big chance there i would have never been able to discuss this with you right now ;)

That's nice and all, but if you wanted to bench press 300 lbs, or climb 5.14, or play the Moonlight Sonata on guitar, or complete a rubik's cube in 7 seconds blindfolded... your luck is unlikely to make a difference. Ever. Which I think you admit in your later point. Hence, life isn't 1 big lottery for things people consider worthwhile (even if you may not). You had some luck early on and now you're conflating that early luck with life. I don't blame you, but most people would disagree. I'm not rolling a d20 and hoping for 10 or less to live every year. I eat well and exercise.

I swear to Kuduku I'm not here to shit on people's well-being and expose them to the chaotic frailty of the human condition... But there are all sorts of fallacies and inaccuracies in your post, not just the bolded part.


p.s. But just to address the athleticism part, there is a huge luck factor in remaining injury free and/or finding out your body can handle certain stress without succumbing to injury. Google basketball players Greg Oden and Jon Scheyer, two separate angles of the same concept of world-class athletes that never came close to their full potential due to injuries out of their control.

p.p.s. For the tl;dr, Scheyer got poked in the eye and almost went blind, and Oden suffered from numerous chink-in-the-armor injuries that turned a highly skilled player and phenomenally gifted athlete into a useless hunk of nerves and muscle.

p.p.p.s. (lol) Those are just two examples but the list is loooong. Two high school legends I played with and against back then, Ronnie Fields and Joel Bullock, both had even freakier things happen to them.

"

Jojas wrote:

Don't know about John but 75 days can be very long when you do nothing but farm the same boss over and over again. By the time you're done all the fun would be sucked right out of the game. Most people would give up way before that, because what's the point?
And when you keep doing different things that are less efficient you would be able to maintain the fun of it a while longer but it'd also take way longer to get that 6L.

But just in case you do that 75 days thing, there is still the question of which item to use it for. That's one piece of gear - which you already need to have otherwise it's pointless - and that item better be worth it. And in the end it means one build out of so many PoE has to offer.

The advice is not bad, but it's also a no-brainer: farm an easy, fast boss over and over again. And fuck fun.

I agree that 75 days is indeed long, but it's in the context of a casual gamer as somehow defined earlier as 10 hours a week. If a casual plays 15 min of PoE a day, should he expect to 6L an item after 75 days? Let's not open that can of worms for debate, my point was that there is an option for 6Ling (which is the end goal of progression for any single item) that takes a maximum of 75 days with minimal effort, and 100% SSF.

In my experience so far, very few builds gain that much non-excessive utility from upgrading 5L to 6L; many builds function at a very decent level with just 4L even. So if a player's goal is not to try out all the different builds but to min-max every single gear for countless builds, and in relatively short duration even as a casual.. I'm really not sure if it's possible to have a game design that caters to casuals in such a way, and yet provides the draw (in terms of item progression) for more hardcore players. Feel free to suggest ways in which this can be implemented, it can only help the game if it's applicable.

"

Jojas wrote:

And if you're not willing to do that you're a lazy new-gen gamer with bad work ethics. Right.

Please don't insert your own rhetoric, at no point did I insinuate anything like that.

Also, I have no idea why john always ignores my questions.

"

consca wrote:

I agree that 75 days is indeed long, but it's in the context of a casual gamer as somehow defined earlier as 10 hours a week. If a casual plays 15 min of PoE a day, should he expect to 6L an item after 75 days? Let's not open that can of worms for debate, my point was that there is an option for 6Ling (which is the end goal of progression for any single item) that takes a maximum of 75 days with minimal effort, and 100% SSF.

In my experience so far, very few builds gain that much non-excessive utility from upgrading 5L to 6L; many builds function at a very decent level with just 4L even. So if a player's goal is not to try out all the different builds but to min-max every single gear for countless builds, and in relatively short duration even as a casual.. I'm really not sure if it's possible to have a game design that caters to casuals in such a way, and yet provides the draw (in terms of item progression) for more hardcore players. Feel free to suggest ways in which this can be implemented, it can only help the game if it's applicable.

"

Jojas wrote:

And if you're not willing to do that you're a lazy new-gen gamer with bad work ethics. Right.

Please don't insert your own rhetoric, at no point did I insinuate anything like that.

Also, I have no idea why john always ignores my questions.

There is the option but it is unrealistic. Aside from what I said above, what casual player wants to farm the same boss 75 days straight? Can you imagine anyone who only has 1-2 hours to spare each day to want to waste them on something like that?

I totally agree that a 6L is not needed. But it's a problem of PoE. In ARPG's you strive for the best gear, that's a big part of what they are all about. So the point that 6L's are not needed is rather moot. 6L's are one of the big carrots, in theory you will get one (!) eventually as a SSF player but in practice they are out of reach. And when you're playing temp leagues it really becomes ridiculous.

I'm not saying this is bad. GGG wants to enforce trading, many people like it, so no problem. All I'm saying is to keep it real when it comes to SSF.

That last bit about laziness was badly worded and formatted and not addressed at you.

"

Jojas wrote:

spoilered just to stop posts from getting long

There is the option but it is unrealistic. Aside from what I said above, what casual player wants to farm the same boss 75 days straight? Can you imagine anyone who only has 1-2 hours to spare each day to want to waste them on something like that?

I totally agree that a 6L is not needed. But it's a problem of PoE. In ARPG's you strive for the best gear, that's a big part of what they are all about. So the point that 6L's are not needed is rather moot. 6L's are one of the big carrots, in theory you will get one (!) eventually as a SSF player but in practice they are out of reach. And when you're playing temp leagues it really becomes ridiculous.

I'm not saying this is bad. GGG wants to enforce trading, many people like it, so no problem. All I'm saying is to keep it real when it comes to SSF.

That last bit about laziness was badly worded and formatted and not addressed at you.

Indeed, no casual will want to mindlessly farm for that long. I don't think there's a way to reconcile both ends of the spectrum in a single league though. Probably, the only way for true SSF to be feasible is if paid leagues do indeed become a reality, and GGG allows drop rates to be adjusted in paid leagues. PoE with new D3 style loot, if you will.

Play 5L.
Use Tabula.
Get an ex drop and buy a cheap 6L.

I'm more casual than no-lifing, not grinding boring stuff and still get my stuff.

The only things out of reach for a casual are the 10ex+ items. When not dropped by sheer luck. But as a casual, you shouldn 't expect those anyways.

GGG has recognized a significant portion of their user base is not enjoying drop rates in announcing their new patch, so there is something to this.


The hardcore will complain of course, that they have made it too easy.

The other end will complain that its still too hard and by increasing drop rates from .0001% to .0004% it's not going to do much.

The truth is, as usual, somewhere in the middle, exactly where is still to be determined.



Now if GGG wanted to really hook players, and get the most out of an addicted player base they would do something that would allow a casual to make some slow and steady progress towards achieving some gear.

The best of the best, the creme of the crop is going to get their T1 stuff in the first week of new leagues, like they always do, and all the power to them.


Throwing a bone to the other 99% is in their best interest and would help to retain players.

So how do you incrementally allow someone (lets call them the less fortunate) to achieve gear, in a way that does not OVERGEAR someone and "let uniques rain from the sky"?


My thought is to introduce a new orb. This orb is accumulated by selling drops to the vendor. Based on the value of the drop you sell ( number of T1 attributes, roll values, whatever ) you get X number of Orbs back. The Orbs are "No Trade" and can only be used by that particular character.

Vendors are setup that sell Uniques using the new Orbs. Players may purchase these uniques using the new Orb currency and the item they receive is marked as "No Trade" as well.

Set prices on the gear so that the low powered gear has smaller price values, and the ultimate high powered stuff is fricking expensive, but achievable within some time frame.

So average Joe player can log in, kill some stuff, collect a few orbs and see some sort of progress towards buying something they want without killing the economy or letting gear drop from the sky.

You could even limit the number of Orbs earned per day to keep the 1%ers from gearing up 100X faster than regular Joes.