I still think map drops are fine - boost drops and good players can do 79++ all day long
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So, I think we've reached an agreement.
Current map drop rates ARE fine, if you have a solid base to start from, a decent currency collection to invest, have a build that is not hard countered by many map mods, and you don't suffer too many bad RNG streaks. But lets not sugarcoat the pork sausage here, progression through the map tiers in the temporary leagues is no longer a curve that is defined by difficulty and influenced by RNG. It is a series of peaks, troughs and plateaus that is defined by RNG and influenced by difficulty. There is nothing wrong with this - but there are consequences. - Denial: Man, I must be having a really bad RNG streak - Anger: Fucking Devs, goddamn arse shit map drop rates FUCK - Bargaining: I'll run these high IIQ maps, 130/140 - if I run them hard, the game will reward me - Depression: Oh god no, please god no, I can't do Temp Chains/Chilled Ground again *sob* - Acceptance: WTB 79 maps - PST == Officially Retired 27/02/2019 ==
Massive thanks to GGG for producing such a fun and engaging game, it has taken up faaaaaaar too much of my life over the last 5 years. Best of luck in the future! |
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I don't know if i can agree to it being defined by RNG. Knowledge of how to roll maps is the primary factor in how your pool looks over time.
You cannot have a situation where it is not possible to run the very top maps over and over(our current situation where 80-82 maps arent meant to be ran constantly), and have a situation where everyone can easily maintain all the maps they want. RNG is the nature of the map game, and we all know that a lot of people really don't like that, myself often included. However in the current form - the choice stands between mapping being for the most hardcore gamers who optimize the most(such that their experience is the best and they don't run the very same highest maps over and over), and making the game for all those who just wanna access all maps at their leisure with droprates that are balanced around not optimizing map rolls. Anyways, i'm gonna slack off, did really a LOT of maps today and last days, i need a little break. I am the light of the morning and the shadow on the wall, I am nothing and I am all. Last edited by Crackmonster on Aug 3, 2015, 4:54:32 AM
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I like the new map system, drop rates and all. I'm running a far greater range of maps (75+), and using more tricks to optimise all of my high-level maps.
Prior to 2.0, I was chaining 76+ maps easily, and building up a surplus of currency. It was just too easy and effortless. Now, I'm chaining 75+ maps easily, but running at a currency deficit of approx 2-3 chaos equivalent per map run average. Most of the maps I run are level 75-78. Occasionally a lucky streak will start, and I'll get a 79. I have an excess 75 map pool of around 50+ maps. This is solo. The costs per run will obviously drop in a group further reducing the cost per run. I've run over 300 maps. In this time I've got a handful of 80+ maps all from lucky streaks i.e. zana with a +1 zone, the boss of which drops a +2. GGG said 79+ would be hard to acquire so no complaints there. This is expected. It took me a while to tune my currency strategy to get into this position. I'm also having to tweak my strategy based on specific maps (i.e. volcano vs bazaar). To me, this is interesting, as I'm using detailed knowledge to optimise my currency. A lot of these subtleties were lost from 1.0 onwards as maps became easier to acquire. I use 3 different builds to cover different combinations of mods, which further reduces the cost of running maps. From what I've read, 74 is a sticking point for a lot of people. I would like to see GGG introduce some ways to help people spike out of this pool more regularly. I think raising the daily zana level back to 77 will help with this. |
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How ironic to see OP bashing people for making conclusions about low map drop rates with small sample size while he is doing the same only this time he is suggesting map drops are fine.
I also get that warm fuzzy feeling in my stomach every time someone use argument that people do not know how to roll maps. This could have been valid 2 years ago but certainly it is not so hot these days. There is currently not many ways to roll maps anyways. People will be mostly limited by their currency than anything else. Builds not able to do all mods are reality because not everybody is playing few cheese builds that can cope with anything. Than again, builds should not cap your ability to progress in maps as long as you have currency to re-roll those mods that your build can't manage. What is also conveniently missing in OP is whether this opinion is based on solo or party play, permanent leagues or new leagues. Private profile to make sure these things can't be worked out and I guess to keep his super secret build from spreading out. My thoughts on the topic of map drops: Progress in maps was significantly slowed compared to 1.3 and it was also made much more expensive to get to even mid-tier maps (74 onward now, former 72). My biggest grip with current system is a fact that lower maps can drop from your current maps. This is place where GGG need to make changes to keep maps at least bit rewarding. Map drop rates can be kept as they are but you should never get maps outside of +/- 2 levels of your current map. And also to put TLDR version at the end: " Last edited by Baron01 on Aug 3, 2015, 5:07:43 AM
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" I think you're right here. One of the reasons I'm sitting out the leagues this time (apart from being really busy!) is that I hate building map pools from scratch. Although I've done it several times, it's still a pretty stressful experience. I would like to see them introduce something map specific per league, to help experienced players along with their map pool. I think putting up the Zana cap is an easy way to do this, and GGG could probably come up with something much better. |
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" What is a "good player" in this context? In Warbands I have a well balanced (defendse / offense) 2H Cylone build with decent gear (SF almost all gear, except 6L astral which I traded div.cards for). I can do every map mod combo, 120%+ maps and fully clear everything up to 79s (dont have much experience with 80+). I put in the time investment. Yet without one absolutely crucial ingredient, I wouldn't be able to chain 75s, let alone 79+. This GG WP gaming ingredient is of course shopping. --- Alc are ok. Vaals don't drop nearly as much as you would need them. Chisels are too scarce, even if you pick all hammers while mapping (I do). You will have enough chaos only to spend all of them for maps (and that's only if you don't use Zana mods). Sac. frags are non-existent (corrupted bosses don't return enough), unless you Ctrl+click faceroll quest content zones for a few days.... And that's before you are forced to start using highly expensive Zana mods. So let's change the title to: Involved traders are able to chain blah blah.... Big traders have always been able to play at any level, so no news here. When night falls She cloaks the world In impenetrable darkness Last edited by morbo on Aug 3, 2015, 5:15:51 AM
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I meant good players, as players who are good at rolling maps - who can optimize the outcome given economic restrictions. But yes, this is a game based around trading, i don't need to mention trading in the title as it's just an everyday part of poe. I do also buy chaos, vaal and alterations, else it would not be possible for me to roll well enough.
Btw good posts guys, finally some serious discussion on drop rates. - i also forgot to mention, doing corrupted maps you also get lots of fragments, that leads to atziri sets which leads to drops worth an exalt and up. All these sources of income makes it possible to sustain maps for me, and make a good bit on top of that. I am the light of the morning and the shadow on the wall, I am nothing and I am all. Last edited by Crackmonster on Aug 3, 2015, 5:23:06 AM
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" Yea, keep those conspiracy theories rolling! I am the light of the morning and the shadow on the wall, I am nothing and I am all.
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For the record:
I also hate RNG gated content when it comes to leveling a character (i just want to level, finding the highest tiers of items is nice while doing so but this factor really should be gated and i am fine with that) But i really like the current state of economy of maps in standard: 2x lvl 78 maps = 1ex 1x lvl 80 map = 1-1,5ex 1x lvl 81 map = 2ex 1x lvl 82 map = 3-4ex I enjoy this way of making currency. If you have a good build which can do nearly map mods and nearly all combinations of map mods you don't have to spend a lot of currency rolling them to get a reward out of it. Personally i am only running up to 76-77 maps myself because i am selling all maps drops higher than that to make huge profit out of it. Most people are starved on maps now so you can easily sell them. What i don't like about this situation is that you have to have a good build to do that - and there arn't that many possibilitys for such a build out there and most of them are very costly - this will lowers build diversity at the end (at this time build diversity is fine, but in 2 month from new when people finaly figure out what is most efficiant there will be 3-5 popular builds at top; remember the burn prolif meta) |
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I agree with OP. Map drops are just fine.
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