Endgame Unique scamming in Tempest

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Peterlerock wrote:

Los, what?

You don't have prices in poe. You don't have exchange rates for your pixel money.
You can find agreements, you can discuss prices, you can even give your treasures away for free. Or steal, cheat, manipulate.

Some will be nice, some won't.

There are simply no rules whatsoever.

Deal with it.

This^

It's a video GAME, get rich and powerful in any way possible.

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txd wrote:

"

Peterlerock wrote:

Los, what?

You don't have prices in poe. You don't have exchange rates for your pixel money.
You can find agreements, you can discuss prices, you can even give your treasures away for free. Or steal, cheat, manipulate.

Some will be nice, some won't.

There are simply no rules whatsoever.

Deal with it.

This^

It's a video GAME, get rich and powerful in any way possible.

Basically....Get Rich or Die Tryin.....well not really but you guys get it

So, if I were to sell a Shav's (don't have one, but if I had) for 20 fusings, I would be scamming because that price is too low?
I really don't get it.

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tdr3d wrote:

Why, because human beings are inherently pieces of garbage? You can treat the symptoms, it won't fix the cause.

By that (inherently pessimistic) logic, and form of rules or order are entirely useless, as again, they only work to constrain the symptoms of humanity, and do nothing for the uncurable condition they have. For PoE, that means removing all rules of speech, no longer trying to combat RMT or hacking at all, or so forth: they're just treating symptoms of people being garbage, and not fixing the cause.

No, I'm pretty sure most other people reading saw that logic fall apart before they even finished reading the first sentence. It is the nature of providing order that it can encourage and bring out the better in people... Or at the very least, make it so that others don't have to suffer the nastiness of just one individual.

As far as how it applies here, it's pretty straightforward: if we had an offline shop system that let people buy items right away, there would be no issue like this: people could not trick others into getting scammed like this. If a price is placed as such, it means it.

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ACGIFT wrote:

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tdr3d wrote:

Why, because human beings are inherently pieces of garbage? You can treat the symptoms, it won't fix the cause.

By that (inherently pessimistic) logic, and form of rules or order are entirely useless, as again, they only work to constrain the symptoms of humanity, and do nothing for the uncurable condition they have. For PoE, that means removing all rules of speech, no longer trying to combat RMT or hacking at all, or so forth: they're just treating symptoms of people being garbage, and not fixing the cause.

No, I'm pretty sure most other people reading saw that logic fall apart before they even finished reading the first sentence. It is the nature of providing order that it can encourage and bring out the better in people... Or at the very least, make it so that others don't have to suffer the nastiness of just one individual.

As far as how it applies here, it's pretty straightforward: if we had an offline shop system that let people buy items right away, there would be no issue like this: people could not trick others into getting scammed like this. If a price is placed as such, it means it.

Exactly this. I can't wait for the trading update. Still a lot better than drop trading in Mud Flats back in the day.

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ACGIFT wrote:

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tdr3d wrote:

Why, because human beings are inherently pieces of garbage? You can treat the symptoms, it won't fix the cause.

By that (inherently pessimistic) logic, and form of rules or order are entirely useless, as again, they only work to constrain the symptoms of humanity, and do nothing for the uncurable condition they have. For PoE, that means removing all rules of speech, no longer trying to combat RMT or hacking at all, or so forth: they're just treating symptoms of people being garbage, and not fixing the cause.

No, I'm pretty sure most other people reading saw that logic fall apart before they even finished reading the first sentence. It is the nature of providing order that it can encourage and bring out the better in people... Or at the very least, make it so that others don't have to suffer the nastiness of just one individual.

As far as how it applies here, it's pretty straightforward: if we had an offline shop system that let people buy items right away, there would be no issue like this: people could not trick others into getting scammed like this. If a price is placed as such, it means it.

The current trading system is shit because humans are amoral. This is 100% accurate and correct.No matter what system is in place, amorality will ensure that all of the problems will still exist. (though likely in a different form and degree). Build a better trade system, scammers get better at scamming.

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Mikrotherion wrote:

So, if I were to sell a Shav's (don't have one, but if I had) for 20 fusings, I would be scamming because that price is too low?
I really don't get it.

An item has no "worth". That's not how a "barter economy" works.
Instead you set a price for yourself ("I really need a 5 link chest now. I have 10 chaos, but I only want to spend 4"), and then hope to find someone who can deliver such an item for your price.

Problems only start to arise because people want fixed price lists where none exist.
"WTF? Those scamming flipping assholes raised exalt prices to 50 chaos?"
That's just stupid. There is no "exalt price". If you think 50 chaos is worth more than 1 Ex, then don't buy an Ex for 50 chaos. Problem solved.

PoE economy (as any barter economy) is based upon agreements, not prices.
Two people find a way, and unless they don't press the trade button, there is no trade.
Nobody can force you to sell your "1 Ex ring" for 1 Ex, and you cannot force anyone to ask 1 Ex for his "1 Ex ring". If he wants 2 Ex for it, that's his right. If he is not sure and asks "offer?" 20 times, that's also his right.


So let's say, your imaginary Shav is currently "worth" (whatever the f... that means) 50 Ex.
You're selling it for 30 Ex to a guy.

If you really want, you can say he screwed you for 20 Ex.
Maybe because you're masochistic and want to feel bad.

Or you can look at it in a realistic way:
A deal was made, both of you were happy.
You wanted shiny exalts and you wanted them now, didn't want to check "prices", didn't want to wait or bother with negotiation. And he wanted a Shavs and felt he got a pretty nice deal.

Just accept it and move on.

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ACGIFT wrote:

As far as how it applies here, it's pretty straightforward: if we had an offline shop system that let people buy items right away, there would be no issue like this: people could not trick others into getting scammed like this. If a price is placed as such, it means it.

I remember when i bought an Ice Pick for a few hundreds zeny instead of its actual worth (millions) because seller misplaced a zero. And situations like this were pretty common in Ragnarok Online.

Now imagine that you have shavs listed for 30chorbs instead of 30ex and somebody buys it off you offline shop. You are done mate. DONE.

Done even get me started on RMAH bots.

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Teplokot wrote:

Now imagine that you have shavs listed for 30chorbs instead of 30ex and somebody buys it off you offline shop. You are done mate. DONE.

I played WoW for many years, and I once bought an awesome weapon that clearly had the wrong price on it.
I contacted the seller after I bought it and offered to sell it back to him (for what I paid for it) as I felt the price was stupidly low for said item.
He told me to keep it, he owned his mistake.

Limits could be placed on how many transactions you could perform in an hour/24hr/week whatever time frame you choose.

No system is perfect, we all know that.
What we have now is gimped/broken, but it is what we have.

I mostly solo/SF because that's how my life allows me to play.