Greece financial crisis

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Poutsos wrote:

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Xavderion wrote:

To get back on topic, Tsipras has agreed to do some reforms but in return he wants another 53.5 billion Euros...

Tsipras has agreed to almost all reforms proposed by Germany(including severe cuts on wages and tax increases on the already overburdened middle class), but what he actually wants is a good percentage of the debt to be written off, the same thing that happened with Germany where almost 60% of it's debt was written off, after they fucked up the whole Europe(greece included-we had over 400 000 casualties). And while the US supports Tsipras on this, the German goverment says it's out of the quetion. At this point German politicians are acting like Nazis, there is no better way to put this. I am pretty sure that alot of German people know the situation better and will not elect this Nazi bitch another time. Either way we are fucked. There is also a pretty good chance Tsipras and Syriza will quit and will have elections again, what Germany wanted in the first place, in order to have the right wing goverment again whom they always agreed on everything without any hesitation.

Some partys (Grüne, Linke, AFD) have called for a debt cut for years now, I also think it would be the best way to "solve" this. Still no need to pull the Nazi card :P Merkel is just following her own interests, if she allows a debt cut her voters will rip her apart because she burned billions of euros in tax money.

we germans are mostly controlled by our mass media which is in the hands of some big rich owners (axel springer, bertelsmann and others) who have their own interests which is opposite to that of the people.

we also have mostly no idea about how a economy works, a majority of people still believes that a gouvernment can be run in the same way as a big company.

people fall for that propaganda and think if the government runs less debt, it somehow makes them rich in the long and their children don't have to repay that huge pile of debt.
only some few point for the fact that the debt of the state is the whealth of it's people ... and get ignored.

propaganda says: hate the workless: we hate the workless despite employment opportunities shrink
propaganda says: privatization is good because the state is not capable of handling things: we privatize and end up having paid much more than otherwise, leaving services in a worse quality because private companies are profit and not quality oriented.

propaganda says: competition between countries sharing the same currency is good: we lower wages to get competitional, export rates shot into the sky, other states get highly indebted by us and can't compete because they're less competitive. now we won over greece and recognize they can't buy our goods anymore.

germans are stupid, mostly.


edit:
my prediction towards greece is the total blackout. syriza will fail because what the country now needs is massive investments into new technologies, infrastructure and industry. they will never achieve that by staying in the euro, soon syriza will be replaced by some extreme right wing party or the army takes control of it and people will suffer even more.

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vio wrote:

propaganda says: privatization is good because the state is not capable of handling things: we privatize and end up having paid much more than otherwise, leaving services in a worse quality because private companies are profit and not quality oriented.

I really dislike generalizations. Privatizations can be good or bad, thing is to not do it ideologically (like it happened in my country; some things improved and some went to hell, really important things).

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vio wrote:

my prediction towards greece is the total blackout. syriza will fail because what the country now needs is massive investments into new technologies, infrastructure and industry. they will never achieve that by staying in the euro, soon syriza will be replaced by some extreme right wing party or the army takes control of it and people will suffer even more.

I disagree. My country had the same troubles, and it didn't end that way. Given who screwed Greece, right wing governments (or even center) are not going to see a lot of success. The best way to put radical leftists at the power is to show the nastiest aspects of capitalism to some people.

The shit that it's happening in Greece is not the end of the world, even if it brings lots of suffering. They will recover with time, even if they'll have to default eventually.

Hiho.
My friend and I talked a bit about Greece (she spent 10 years there running a business with her husband) and she mentioned taxes. The thing is most of the business was done "under the counter" so to say. She said is is a very common practise and most small/medium companies do exactly that to avoid paying taxes.
Here is an article about that if you would like to read a bit more:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-33479946
Of course this is the root of the problem but it contributed to the current situation.
Just read about situation of pensioners:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-33382046
Damn.

I mostly agree with Vio. There was alot of privatisation here in Greece and the results were catastrophic. The rise of an extreme right wing goverment here is a possibility and our biggest fear.

NeroNoah: Greece is not Argentina, we do not have nearly the resources you do. If i am not mistaken, didn't the fact that the Goverment took over private companies did the most to help you get out of your crisis?

Gathor: Yeah, tax collecting have been terrible here in Greece, except Goverment workers who cannot not pay their taxes. The biggest problem is big companies who have not paid millions and millions in taxes. Private TV netwroks alone have not paid around 500 millions EU.

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Poutsos wrote:

NeroNoah: Greece is not Argentina, we do not have nearly the resources you do. If i am not mistaken, didn't the fact that the Goverment took over private companies did the most to help you get out of your crisis?

I know. Argentina was lucky with exports last time. But statization wasn't responsible for growth. I'm really wary of people talking shit about privatization or statization. You can't just say one is the right path. I can give you examples of both working and failing.

That being said, money that doesn't go to debts can be spent in something actually productive. There are hopes for you even in the worst case scenario.

INB4 Tsipras loses the elections and we get Xrush augh (neonazi's political party) to lead the country into a war or something...

The situation at the moment is downright depressing. I can't focus on writing my master thesis, and i do not even see the point in doing so...

#thisisacoup is now trending on Twatter. Basically people are saying it's the Fourth Reich and comparing what Schäuble is doing Greece to what Hitler did to Poland.

People comparing this to Nazi Germany? Guess that happens then most people who have been there are dead or don't talk about it.

Smells a wee bit like tumblr.