DEL

DEL, guide removed

I've brainstormed over oro's-fireborn idea for quite some time, based on templar and I'm yet to succeed. Basically it is either plainly horrible or requires lv95+ and still horrible.

Purrhaps you will do better, but few questions for you:

Why not taking Wrecking ball cluster? It is pretty much the only real reason to evar bother with general idea. Wrecking ball + Destroyer + Lava lash and then rest of useful stuff around duelist starting area.

Does Martial experience worth taking for basically four points?

Why no extra frenzy charges? They are much more useful in beta and you are pathing near two of them.

Wrecking Ball - simply didn't think about it, will definitely include it in the next tree issued!
F-charges - I'll probably include them as well.

Thanks for feedback!

Updated to 0.2!

howdy there! i have a few suggestions for your build.

firstly, you seem a little starved for mana. since you have little mana from the tree and reserve 100% of it, after alpha's howl you have 44 mana left over to use skills. using a level 19 cleave in a 5L without increased AoE, your cleave costs roughly 37 mana. with a level 1 leap slam, your leap slam costs 21 mana. so here's what you propose would look like:

1) leap slam into pack. current mana is 44 - 21 = 23
2) celerity gives you 2x mana, where x is number of enemies hit.

for you to use cleave directly afterwards, you'd need to hit no fewer than 7 enemies, which is hard to guarantee ALL the time. i'd strongly suggest replacing increased AoE with blood magic, so that you don't have to worry about it interfering with your main attack. that is, of course, assuming that you can sustain cleave in the first place. basically the mana on hit needs to totally refund the mana used to cast cleave.

1) cleave uses 37 mana
2) celerity and poacher's give you 13x mana, where x is number of enemies hit

for you to use cleave directly after another cleave, each cleave needs to hit at least 3 enemies. this is a lot more doable than the leap slam, but still a little iffy in my opinion. this is assuming that EVERY enemy you hit is cursed with poacher's mark, which ignores things like curse immunity, curse duration, etc.

if you're relying on a curse and mana to sustain your attacks, i'd recommend using warlord's mark over poacher's mark. most importantly, it will always sustain your mana regardless of the number of enemies that get hit by it. you could also replace a gem in your setup with blood magic and forego the alpha's howl, since you only have one reservation gem that will benefit from it. there are a lot of options, but i think your current one is iffy. maybe with elreon jewelry...?

secondly, your defenses seem like more of an afterthought than an integral part of your build. i see that you're running grace and will likely look for evasion on gear, but you have very little %increased evasion in the tree. you pass right by juicy clusters like celerity and survivalist without taking them. even cloth and chain might be worth getting.

i'd also HIGHLY recommend putting blind into your build somewhere. i find it almost essential for any evasion character, simply because it decreases chance to hit a flat amount. it's easiest to apply using some sort of cwdt setup. i usually use something like: cwdt + blind + ball lightning + firestorm/GMP.

here's a tree that i threw together for you. it certainly still needs some tweaking, but it has 8% more increased damage (33% if you count celestial punishment), 21% less attack speed, 10% more life, and a whopping 128% more increased evasion. also notable is % increased AoE in templar, 5% more increased ignite chance, and more elemental penetration. it also has a bit more accuracy (the node in ranger), and you have the option of getting two more jewel sockets if you'd like.

Fireborn and Mantra are red herrings for Oro builds as far as I'm concerned (with the exception that Mantra is amazing in party play if you can get more than 2-3 buffs on you). With Fireborn you usually get 40-50% damage for four+ nodes plus the nodes for the jewel itself.

The perfect rare for cleave right now, Flaming Fencing Jewel of Combat and Blasting, has the potential for up to 40% increased damage and 8% attack speed and saves you all those nodes unless you were already traveling through them. The more attainable magic, Flaming Jewel of Combat, will get you at worst 22% damage. With Fireborn, another 30% damage for four points is a pretty mediocre 7.5% fire damage per point.

If Fireborn were large radius you could do some very interesting things with it, but at Medium there just aren't enough places on the tree to justify it in my opinion.

@Cullam, if I get additional INT on gear (that I'll need anyway for Increased AoE) I should have 67 mana unreserved. That's still very little, so I'm considering either increasing my mana pool or investing a few points in -% mana reserved nodes. You also seem to forgot that this build is supposed to have 8+ aps. 8 x 13 = 104 mana gained per second per enemy, while my mana cost would be 8 / 3 (Multistrike) = 2.66 x 37 = 98.4. In other words, if I get to around 100 mana unreserved which is my goal for the final version of the build, I should be fine. I tested Poacher's Mark (without any other source of gain/leech) on my live Double Striker and it worked just fine, even against single targets (with a mana cost of 34 and 14 aps).
Getting anywhere between 15-20,000 evasion is fine if you invest in Acro/Phase Acro and Atziri's Step. Now, it'd be more than enough considering the buff Hyrri's got (which is a defensive alternative for Carcass). Against bosses you can also hit Vaal Grace with Increased Duration. I tested this setup on my Double Striker and it took some crazy mods to take me down.

@Imprecision: with Fireborn I get 96% increased damage + some decent attack speed. IMO it's totally worth it. But, this build is not close to being a finished product, so we'll see how it develops.

I'm surprised you're playing noncrit without RT. You must really value your evasion and Acro highly.

Also surprised at your skill choice of Cleave, generally considered weak for anything but maybe DW. Why not Ice Crash, Sweep or Infernal Blow/Melee Splash?

"

Weißenberg wrote:

@Cullam, if I get additional INT on gear (that I'll need anyway for Increased AoE) I should have 67 mana unreserved. That's still very little, so I'm considering either increasing my mana pool or investing a few points in -% mana reserved nodes. You also seem to forgot that this build is supposed to have 8+ aps. 8 x 13 = 104 mana gained per second per enemy, while my mana cost would be 8 / 3 (Multistrike) = 2.66 x 37 = 98.4. In other words, if I get to around 100 mana unreserved which is my goal for the final version of the build, I should be fine. I tested Poacher's Mark (without any other source of gain/leech) on my live Double Striker and it worked just fine, even against single targets (with a mana cost of 34 and 14 aps).
Getting anywhere between 15-20,000 evasion is fine if you invest in Acro/Phase Acro and Atziri's Step. Now, it'd be more than enough considering the buff Hyrri's got (which is a defensive alternative for Carcass). Against bosses you can also hit Vaal Grace with Increased Duration. I tested this setup on my Double Striker and it took some crazy mods to take me down.

aps doesn't factor into mana on hit calculations whatsoever unless you're taking mana regeneration into account; if you gain enough mana on hit in one attack to use the next attack, what does attack speed matter apart from DPS? it's also important to note that double strike has double the hits, so using mana on hit with it would be quite different than using it with cleave. why not test with cleave on live, or plan on using double strike for 2.0?

but if it works and you're struggling for unreserved mana, then why not take out herald of ice/pyre? it adds a contextually small amount of damage and no utility for a large portion of your mana pool, as well as one ring slot. if you dropped it you could even drop alpha's howl with no worries.

it's certainly true that evasion has diminishing returns, and i can understand not fully investing into it, to an extent. i still think it's absolutely vital that you include a cwdt blind setup: it effectively acts as a more multiplier on your chance to evade, and in terms of evasion is an exponential increase to it.

@Zed: why Cleave? For the same reasons you mentioned, the skill gets very little attention (while it's pretty solid). It's a good compromise between damage and AoE. Sweep doesn't work with swords (so it'd somehow ruin the whole idea), Infernal Blow needs an additional socket + AoE from Splash doesn't satisfy me (especially after its quality nerf in 2.0) and Ice Crash? It's not even close to be as powerful as people think it is. Also, I'm usually trying to stay anti-meta (hence I barely post any builds, even if they're awesome to play like the Double Striker I mentioned) and play skills that barely get touched. And, why not RT? Because a) it's kinda counter-intuitive to play evasion and RT (reflect) and b) it's rather far from my tree. If at some point I decide to go towards the Templar area I'd consider picking it up.

@cullam: I get your point. I'll test it with Cleave asap (which means probably at some point next week, can't play PoE right now). A CwDT/Blind setup will definitely be included in the build, as you can see so far I only described a general idea of what I'm trying to here.

Anyway, thanks for your feedback, I'll try to see what works better and will update the build version once I have more time.

edit: I've got a minute to check the DPS spreadsheet I made... you were right, HoI gives very little (especially compared with a T1 flat fire ring). So, HoI gets removed together with Alpha's Howl which solves the mana problem. Also swapped Poacher's with Warlord's.