Self-Found HC/SC Leagues With Unique-Only Trading?!

its not hard to play self found on leagues who alrdy exist.

heres how you do it:
First off, never trade with anyone, just put permanent loot if you partying and only focus on ur own gameplay, and never trade.

solved, i really dont see any reason to have a selffound league when you can easily do this type on alrdy existed leagues.

alot peoples Luck suck compare to other people, so they are forced to maybe use trade to buy/sell, and by making a self found league wouldnt that just hurt the gameplay for alot of people?

I would love a self-found league with better loot tables. I loathe the trading/crafting requirements in this game, but unfortunately that's like 90% of what this game is all about. The game still manages to be enjoyable enough that I continue to play it even though I prefer aRPG's that are all about farming and looting and not crafting and trading, so I continue to play even though it's not really what I'm looking for. Game does get very frustrating at higher levels when you don't have great gear. The vast, vast vast majority of deaths in this game are just from getting one shotted by retarded stuff (from not having better gear) or from desync/rubberbanding. A realistic estimate would be that that only about 1 out of every 30 or more deaths is something I could have actually avoided, truly.

A self-found league (with better loot drop tables so the crafting was either unnecessary or at least much less expensive) would give myself and all of my friends (all of whom can only tolerate this game in short spurts for the reasons I mentioned above) much more interest in continued playing. Friends and I have all gotten older and work for a living, so the idea of 'hardcore' gaming doesn't exactly appeal to us the way it did years ago. Since I don't see this game changing it's core philosophies anytime soon, I imagine we'll all be giving Grim Dawn or something else a try before too long.

And of course I don't believe the game should change just for me or anything like that, so don't get that impression. Nobody is forcing me to play, I'm just throwing in my opinions to the discussion. I do find though that the majority of people I talk to about this game tend to be wanting something that does the things PoE does right, but less hardcore. I really think a self-found league could really appeal to that crowd more. And I really don't see the harm it could cause since it wouldn't interact in any way with other leagues.

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davidnn5 wrote:

Perq - you missed both my point and the mechanics of what I was idly pondering. Maybe re-read and try to think outside of the structure of what currently exists.

Explain those points then, instead of trying to sound smart, or suggesting that I'm dumb enough to miss dem obvious points. Explain how EXACTLY these "outside of the structure" mechanics could work, as for now, you explained nothing.

Sometimes it is better to simply say that you were wrong, or did not think about something too long, instead of trying to go deeper into something that makes no sense.

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Vicariously wrote:

I would love a self-found league with better loot tables. I loathe the trading/crafting requirements in this game, but unfortunately that's like 90% of what this game is all about. The game still manages to be enjoyable enough that I continue to play it even though I prefer aRPG's that are all about farming and looting and not crafting and trading, so I continue to play even though it's not really what I'm looking for. Game does get very frustrating at higher levels when you don't have great gear. The vast, vast vast majority of deaths in this game are just from getting one shotted by retarded stuff (from not having better gear) or from desync/rubberbanding. A realistic estimate would be that that only about 1 out of every 30 or more deaths is something I could have actually avoided, truly.

A self-found league (with better loot drop tables so the crafting was either unnecessary or at least much less expensive) would give myself and all of my friends (all of whom can only tolerate this game in short spurts for the reasons I mentioned above) much more interest in continued playing. Friends and I have all gotten older and work for a living, so the idea of 'hardcore' gaming doesn't exactly appeal to us the way it did years ago. Since I don't see this game changing it's core philosophies anytime soon, I imagine we'll all be giving Grim Dawn or something else a try before too long.

And of course I don't believe the game should change just for me or anything like that, so don't get that impression. Nobody is forcing me to play, I'm just throwing in my opinions to the discussion. I do find though that the majority of people I talk to about this game tend to be wanting something that does the things PoE does right, but less hardcore. I really think a self-found league could really appeal to that crowd more. And I really don't see the harm it could cause since it wouldn't interact in any way with other leagues.

Thinking that only 1/30 deaths is your fault is the problem really. Unless you start to face up to your responsibility you won't ever get anywhere. There are plenty of people in HC who go high level. Plenty of people in SC that go high level with only a few deaths. I bet if 30 deaths would be layed out infront of the forum, we could find a reason for you in every single death that could have been prevented by yourself. But really stop blaming the game for your bad play, it starts to annoy the crap out of me that people just can't look at their build/playstyle first before just easy mode blaming it on the game.

On topic, can we not just stop this nonsense about selffound. The ability to trade is amazing. Even if at some points you yourself have to find tools to make it easier. You can play this game the way you want to, and that's the beauty of it. I've played the 5 day solo, went almost lvl 91, couldn't even play last 1.5 days because of work. And it was easy peasy. More then anything it was annoying and frustrating that certain things (gems, currency) could only be found, but you adapt to it, and start wasting less. So play selffound if you wish, nobody is stopping you. But please for the love of god, stop shoving the idea up other people's throat.

I would not play it. The 5day solo made me realize just how much I enjoy trading. I didn't need to trade and I did just fine without it, but I would have enjoyed it far more because I found several items that were trash for me, but would have traded well and I could have got something I needed. Jewelry was the bane of my existence in the 5day solo. I had crap rings and amulet throughout the entire run. I used to think Self Found leagues would be fun, but after playing in one, even just for 5 days, I quickly learned that I do not like it. Even if trading Uniques was allowed, it still would feel too limiting for me.

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And1111 wrote:

There was 1 SF 5 day event.First and last one.

The participation numbers indicate that it was quite popular. I expect more of them in the future. 😀

The reason the league had any level of success is because beta keys were on the line. That is the only reason I played it. I guarantee you that it would not be nearly as successful without the beta keys as a reward, especially as a lot of learned that it was not nearly as fun as we may have imagined.

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Perq wrote:

Explain those points then, instead of trying to sound smart, or suggesting that I'm dumb enough to miss dem obvious points. Explain how EXACTLY these "outside of the structure" mechanics could work, as for now, you explained nothing.

Sometimes it is better to simply say that you were wrong, or did not think about something too long, instead of trying to go deeper into something that makes no sense.

No, I wasn't wrong, nor was your 'grind docks endlessly no way I prefer trade' example particularly relevant to my musings, nor does the idea lack sense. You just don't seem to have thought about how it might work (still).

A unique-tradeable-only league with crafting more fully supported (or supported at all) would require a number of changes and provide a number of benefits.

Firstly, it would require the implementation of better deterministic systems for crafting. This would be in the vein of using orbs to 'build up' rather than RNG stats on an item. Whereas you currently use X exalts and eternals in the hope of a good roll, the approach would be to give you breakpoints for improvement, with stats you can control to some degree. If you transmuted an item with 1 T1 roll, you'd have the option over time to invest 20/50/100/1000/5000/50000 orbs into that item to eventually add another T1 roll. And etc. Keep in mind this would be paired with a system that either dropped more orbs or the requirements would be paired with drop rates. And with only uniques tradeable, the fact that you've managed to eventually obtain a perfect item would have *no effect* on other people.

And I should note, in case it's at all unclear, that such a system if well-designed should have you at the right point at the right time. I.e. an evasion shield might have 50 life and 25 of each resist by cruel, and 60/30/30/30 by merciless. From there, it would be ever harder to add a point of any stat, but eventually you'd be at 99/45/45/45.

In a sense, divination cards are a step towards such a system. They recognise that pyramidal trade structures can turn players away.

As noted, the benefits would be removing the mirror/eternal meta and giving people more control over their own character. It wouldn't require grinding one area over and over but should, ideally, get you to the point of having omfg gear at about the time when your character should feel pretty much complete (say, level 98). You'd still have to grind of course! But not in areas which feel like a waste of time. Would this need to be a league? Probably. Trading shouldn't be taken away from those who enjoy that mini-game.

I recognise that people have a visceral, gut-level response to the concept of removing some RNG from an ARPG. But the reality is GGG already has (vorici crafting etc), and in all honesty when I think pure RNG I think roguelike one-player games, not online trade-enabling games with long-term character progression. It actually doesn't fit that well. For example, I can't wait for mirrored jewels [/sarcasm].

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marremurt wrote:

its not hard to play self found on leagues who alrdy exist.

heres how you do it:
First off, never trade with anyone, just put permanent loot if you partying and only focus on ur own gameplay, and never trade.

solved, i really dont see any reason to have a selffound league when you can easily do this type on alrdy existed leagues.

alot peoples Luck suck compare to other people, so they are forced to maybe use trade to buy/sell, and by making a self found league wouldnt that just hurt the gameplay for alot of people?

Don't get your knickers in a knot, GGG is unlikely to do much in this area and even if they do it's unlikely to destroy your world ;) But your argument is flawed. For one thing, having the safety net of trade there makes self found unenforceable and unreportable (see all the speculation about whether Anuhart *really* got to 100 completely self found). It also makes comparing e-peens - something the game heavily promotes through leagues, ladders and racing - impossible, because there is no ranking system.

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Miská wrote:

Thinking that only 1/30 deaths is your fault is the problem really. Unless you start to face up to your responsibility you won't ever get anywhere....

....But please for the love of god, stop shoving the idea up other people's throat.

Yeah, good point. It's entirely my fault when the game rubberbands me back to a strongbox I just opened and into a pile of mobs and I insta-die even though I ran out of the way in time. CLEARLY that's my fault! My goodness... Bad netcode literally accounts for the vast majority of my deaths. These are cold hard facts and not up for debate. Like I said, there are times when the death is my own fault, but that's a tiny fraction of the deaths.

And about shoving opinions... do you not realize that is exactly what you are doing, only from the other side of the table?

This all ain't a big deal to me, I was just expressing an opinion on the topic. Last time I checked, we were allowed to have them (opinions). Please, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong though. I still don't understand why people cry about the possibility of adding a self-found league to entice another group of players to enjoy the game, even if this separate league in no way, shape or form interacted with or affected the other leagues. It's actually kind of funny to watch people get their panties in a bunch over the topic...